Defcon 17 suggestions

[SGT_Fury]

Re: Defcon 17 suggestions

Wow. Apparently a nerve or three was touched here. Yes, I am pissing all over the initial idea, and for good reason. It is a BAD idea.
.

Nope, not even close. Just an idea with unlimited ways of execution is summarily dismissed as a bad idea because you said so. You envision one horrible way to execute the idea and thus it is written, bad idea. I think it kinda funny actually.

[Thorn]

Re: Defcon 17 suggestions

Nope, not even close. Just an idea with unlimited ways of execution is summarily dismissed as a bad idea because you said so. You envision one horrible way to execute the idea and thus it is written, bad idea. I think it kinda funny actually.

<shrug> What I think is funny in the odd/ironic context is that as a general rule the DefCon crowd puts little trust in computer/physical security measures unless they have been tested six ways from Sunday. Yet a certain segment is willing to trust the care of their kids to relative strangers without any vetting process. It strikes me as a contradictory attitude for people who can't be separated from their family for a couple of days.

As to the "thus it is written", it may be that I said it*, but saying something doesn't change the state of the idea. Bad is bad. (We could probably go off on a tangent here about critical thinking skills and making judgments, but it's suffice to say that I don't subscribe to the post-modern "everything is relative" philosophy. That, too is bad.)

*Actually, Chris said it first, but I'm willing to be the fall guy for the sake of argument.

[nerdgir1]

Re: Defcon 17 suggestions

I have a suggestion for the Conference Guide! The graphics were wonderful and it was laid out super awesome. My only complaint was that the descriptions of the talks didn't seem to be listed in a particular order, making it hard to look up the details of a particular talk that was listed in the schedule. Also there was no information about when/where the talk was to be had in the description, so when browsing descriptions I then had to skim through the calendar to find it (and hope I didn't miss it). My suggestion would be to organize the talk descriptions either by day and time or in alphabetical order by name, and then to also indicate in the description what day/time the talk is scheduled (and location if at all possible). Other than that minor UI snag I thought everything was great! Thanks for making this an awesome Defcon!

[paint]

Re: Defcon 17 suggestions

I have a suggestion for the Conference Guide! The graphics were wonderful and it was laid out super awesome. My only complaint was that the descriptions of the talks didn't seem to be listed in a particular order, making it hard to look up the details of a particular talk that was listed in the schedule. Also there was no information about when/where the talk was to be had in the description, so when browsing descriptions I then had to skim through the calendar to find it (and hope I didn't miss it). My suggestion would be to organize the talk descriptions either by day and time or in alphabetical order by name, and then to also indicate in the description what day/time the talk is scheduled (and location if at all possible). Other than that minor UI snag I thought everything was great! Thanks for making this an awesome Defcon!

hi other girl...

quick reference index then?

[SGT_Fury]

Re: Defcon 17 suggestions

<shrug> Yet a certain segment is willing to trust the care of their kids to relative strangers without any vetting process. It strikes me as a contradictory attitude for people who can't be separated from their family for a couple of days.

Nobody said anything like that except you, trying to validate you contrary position.

[Chris]

Re: Defcon 17 suggestions

I have a suggestion for the Conference Guide! The graphics were wonderful and it was laid out super awesome. My only complaint was that the descriptions of the talks didn't seem to be listed in a particular order, making it hard to look up the details of a particular talk that was listed in the schedule. Also there was no information about when/where the talk was to be had in the description, so when browsing descriptions I then had to skim through the calendar to find it (and hope I didn't miss it). My suggestion would be to organize the talk descriptions either by day and time or in alphabetical order by name, and then to also indicate in the description what day/time the talk is scheduled (and location if at all possible). Other than that minor UI snag I thought everything was great! Thanks for making this an awesome Defcon!

Actually, we talked about this specific topic in our post con staff meeting. Next year the Speaker Bios will have the time and track of their talk listed. It's an easy fix on our end that will definitely make things easier and better for you guys.

Thanks for the suggestion though. Keep them coming. We can't think of everything.

[Medic]

Re: Defcon 17 suggestions

My only complaint was that the descriptions of the talks didn't seem to be listed in a particular order, making it hard to look up the details of a particular talk that was listed in the schedule.

They were listed in order of the presenters last name. Standard format for references.

--Medic

[Chris]

Re: Defcon 17 suggestions

Nobody said anything like that except you, trying to validate you contrary position.

Ok. Let's back this up a bit.

Thorn is right. *I* was the first person to state that this is a bad idea. I stand behind that.

That said, if a bunch of people want to entrust their kids to other perfect or relative strangers, so be it. I have no control over that and in the end it's your decision. We aren't going to use the forums as a place to organize it. The liability issues to DEF CON are too great. I *DO* have control over that.

And on that note...let's move along. The thread is staying open because it is for suggestions. The issue of child care sharing is over. The suggestion has been made and people are welcome to private message each other about it all day long, but since 99.9% of the Attendees and other forum users aren't interested it's not a topic for public discussion here anymore.

[shrdlu]

Re: Defcon 17 suggestions

Dammit. I've tried, very hard, to ignore this, but I just can't. I'm older than most of you, and (I suspect) more mature than a great many (disregarding my behavior at Defcon, of course). Thorn is on the money here. Pay attention.

<shrug> What I think is funny in the odd/ironic context is that as a general rule the DefCon crowd puts little trust in computer/physical security measures unless they have been tested six ways from Sunday. Yet a certain segment is willing to trust the care of their kids to relative strangers without any vetting process. It strikes me as a contradictory attitude for people who can't be separated from their family for a couple of days.

When my daughter was young, I left her with my mother, or (rarely) with my brothers (after they'd married, and had kids of their own). On extremely rare occasions, I left her with a vetted (and licensed) sitter. I cannot imagine bringing a child under the age of 16 to defcon. For that matter, I can't imagine even bringing them to Vegas. There are just too many things that can happen that a child is not equipped to handle (and I am speaking of emotionally and intellectually, not just physically).

The idea that someone would trust another defcon attendee, no matter how ordinary or professional in appearance, with their children, is just insane. It's also stupid. Really, really stupid. There is no undelete after a child has been harmed. You can't take it back.

...saying something doesn't change the state of the idea. Bad is bad. (We could probably go off on a tangent here about critical thinking skills and making judgments, but it's suffice to say that I don't subscribe to the post-modern "everything is relative" philosophy. That, too is bad.)

Here's the other issue, my friends...

Why do you think that continuing to argue with Thorn, who is *right*, is going to buy you anything? Either do it, or don't do it. Just don't expect the majority of us to applaud you, or sanction it. Won't happen.

The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits. (Albert Einstein)

...and my own favorite...

Stupid is doing the same thing over and over, and expecting different results.

HAND. HTH.

[Chris]

Re: Defcon 17 suggestions

Quick note:

shrdlu was replying at the same time I was just hit 'submit' after me. So she wasn't continuing the discussion after my post saying to end the discussion. Her post is now the last word on the matter.

[SGT_Fury]

Re: Defcon 17 suggestions

For DefCon 17, how about a briefing on social networking and etiquette? Being the technological elite, anyone from DefCon writing up this brief would be considered an expert on the topic.

Here is a good reference: http://www.textfiles.com/100/warbitch.txt

Even though it is technically a relic from a bygone age, it is amazing how appropos it is in today's social networking environment. We might even touch on how to properly discuss points of contention in a forum.

[Chris]

Re: Defcon 17 suggestions

For DefCon 17, how about a briefing on social networking and etiquette? Being the technological elite, anyone from DefCon writing up this brief would be considered an expert on the topic.

Here is a good reference: http://www.textfiles.com/100/warbitch.txt

Even though it is technically a relic from a bygone age, it is amazing how appropos it is in today's social networking environment. We might even touch on how to properly discuss points of contention in a forum.

Maybe we could have a talk on searching the forums for don't poke the bear. Tread lightly.

[Abby_Normal]

Re: Defcon 17 suggestions

First off another great year for Defcon!

I might say this with a bit of caution, but next year I feel releasing more info about how the badge functions might generate more interest in the badge hacking contest. As DT said we've had badge hacking contests for the last 3 years but the participants have only been doubling. There is something to be said though about figuring it out yourself and having a sense of mystery behind it though.

I also hope they keep the file transfer feature for next years badge. I think it'd be a great way to trade info, hand out party invites, etc.

[Deviant Ollam]

Re: Defcon 17 suggestions

I would think that a really interesting concept would be to not include many components directly on the badge itself, but instead just make the badges out of a breadboard type unit or some other foundation for circuitry.

Then, the HHV could have loads of components available (either in kits or some segments pre-fabbed, etc) that could be affixed to badges however people wish. that would really open things up a lot for the badge hacking (including things like people's aesthetic choices when placing components, etc) and bring down both the costs and the production headaches for DEFCON.

That would make the Hardware Hack Village a totally hopping spot and likely even necessitate some overflow to public areas (even with a dual skybox for them) and be a lot easier on all involved.

Just my $0.02

[SGT_Fury]

Re: Defcon 17 suggestions

but instead just make the badges out of a breadboard type unit or some other foundation for circuitry.

That would definitely be a discriminator between classes of attendees to the Con. Those that do, as part of their nature, *hack*, would be very interested in solving the badge. They would attempt to expand/exploit its usage and potential. (As has been exhibited in all previous badge hacking contests).

I'd spend a few hours on it myself. Major Malfunction's brief was a keen insight into what it takes to try to solve the badge conundrum.

Truth be told, I prefer Priest's solution to the mystery box. That always seems to work best. Hacking is wonderful and all, but simple solutions (KISS) are best.

An act of brilliance is lost immediately on 50% of the population. Another 25% waste time trying to say it was a trick. Then you have 23% that try to emulate. They are smart enough to Google. Top 1 or 2 percent are the target audience for solutions. So, out of 10K attendees we have...... Ouch... my head.... Math..... bad.....<grin>

Lost knows this and he targets only the elite to solve his puzzles. But I think, cornered, he'd say he had to dumb them down to get them solved or to enable a competition. But that is the kind of thinking it takes to start a truly elite competition.

SF