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**TheCotMan** · March 3, 2009, 20:16

Re: Odd Idea: Hack a Door Contest

Originally posted by Chosen1 View Post

The premise:

To enter competitors must construct a standard door with a (hopefully cleaver and unique) locking mechanism. Opening the door could require any range of knowledge from electronic to physical properties to odd keying to playing a the right sequence of musical notes, you get the idea...

These are set up in cubicles and teams are given a chance to "Hack" each others door...

Points are awarded for originality, cleverness of the mechanism, uniqueness of the concept, how many doors your team succeeded in compromising, etc.

Team with the most points wins.

Thoughts?

**Door must open to approx 90 degrees so making an opening that once "unlocked" only an Asian child can squeeze through is not going to get you points. And I say approx because I refuse to run around with a square/protractor and argue where the line is. :-p

Sounds like a good idea. Considerations for solutions:
* Who brings the doors? (Large doors may disqualify people that must fly to Las Vegas, and if they are purchased in Las Vegas, getting a taxi to transport the door to the hotel might be an issue.)
* Will people be able to saw their doors, or add new holes for whatever locks they want to use? (If they get their own door, of course they could, but if doors are provided, then...
* Will power be required for the doors, and if so, has a location been requested that offers power?
* Will there be any rules against brute-force technique? (Door kicking jack-boots, circular saw technique, or other forceful methods.)

Get a nod from Russ (for contest space) or DT, and I can add a forum for this event, and let Neil know that it can be added to the DC17 site/pages on the web.

This could even be a contest near the LPCon or maybe the LP Village. Deviant Ollam, et al.?

**Chosen1** · March 4, 2009, 01:36

Re: Odd Idea: Hack a Door Contest

I was thinking bring your own, buy it if you want. We limit the "wall" you build around it to 2.5 feet to either side. The idea is to out THINK the door. If knocking it down was all that was required we could just crown Priest and Pappy champions. (Go Goon squad) :-P

Modification is encouraged, innovate, be cleaver, be deceptive seize the day.

I had also thought pairing this with LPV was a natural but I didn't want to make the suggestion outright.

Power is reasonable but I really think this should be self contained (DC not AC) though I guess you could use AC but I would imagine the first thing someone would do would be cut any power. :-P

Originally posted by TheCotMan View Post

Sounds like a good idea. Considerations for solutions:
* Who brings the doors? (Large doors may disqualify people that must fly to Las Vegas, and if they are purchased in Las Vegas, getting a taxi to transport the door to the hotel might be an issue.)
* Will people be able to saw their doors, or add new holes for whatever locks they want to use? (If they get their own door, of course they could, but if doors are provided, then...
* Will power be required for the doors, and if so, has a location been requested that offers power?
* Will there be any rules against brute-force technique? (Door kicking jack-boots, circular saw technique, or other forceful methods.)

Get a nod from Russ (for contest space) or DT, and I can add a forum for this event, and let Neil know that it can be added to the DC17 site/pages on the web.

This could even be a contest near the LPCon or maybe the LP Village. Deviant Ollam, et al.?

**Deviant Ollam** · March 4, 2009, 09:14

Re: Odd Idea: Hack a Door Contest

i'm always down with interesting new ideas, and i'd love to see how this could work. that said, it sounds like the setup is fucking HUGE in terms of space needed (unless i'm misunderstanding) so having it take place inside the LP Village is likely a no-go. (did you see how packed we were in there last year? people would murder you if there were huge doors spread all around the room)

but, the hallway outside the village might work out well... as long as the hotel doesn't bitch about it for some reason (and i hardly think they would have reason to ... if you're up against the wall it's not like you're blocking traffic) i'd say go for it. we can even work a time slot on the main schedule of events to make sure you're not cross-talking with another contest in which some people want to participate, as well.

we're usually the last skybox (well, last pair of skyboxen) so we're at the end of that upper hallway. that should be a workable solution, i would think. i agree with others' comments that making the contest involve an entire full-size door can be a bit prohibitive in terms of who can participate (driving vs. flying) but it could make for some interesting fun.

my suggestion... in its first year, a contest like this, where the parameters are very open and where everyone is fabricating their own creation, is likely to generate some wickedly strange but funny entries. when i run the Beverage Cooling Contraption Competition, i tend to expect no one person to be an outstanding over-the-moon winner, but instead approach the contest with a multitude of give-aways and prizes just to ensure that anyone who took the effort to show up will have fun, get a little something, and that the crowd will be entertained. if there is a stand-out winner and a large prize, as well, make sure the criteria is very clear and judging is very impartial.

**Chosen1** · March 4, 2009, 12:28

Re: Odd Idea: Hack a Door Contest

I do think it could be a lot of fun. As to space.. I think it would take up a room the size of a skybox. The LPV has been a very popular attraction i wouldn't want to take space from it as I do not expect that trend to change anytime soon. I keep meaning to find my own way up there in fact, but I spend most of my time gooning or lending a hand anyplace its needed.

However I really think this kind of event takes us back to our purpose as opposed to who got the highest score on guitarhero.

Is there a smaller size standard as opposed to the 32/36in door and frame?

I will try to nail down some rules but I really don't care if they bring it or get it in town. Heck the wifi shootout record was set by a couple of kids to rented a uhaul and brought down specialized equipment. If they want to compete people will make arrangements to either get their door there or bring the equipment to build it on site. We could get some donations for some powertools and allow the first day as a build/setup/modification time..

**P33V3** · March 4, 2009, 21:04

Re: Odd Idea: Hack a Door Contest

Should probably set limits on securing the door. Otherwise someone will electrify, booby trap with knives or something unfriendly.

**YenTheFirst** · March 4, 2009, 23:40

Re: Odd Idea: Hack a Door Contest

This sounds like a neat idea!

I had an idea: set up a cubicle farm/maze type thing. Teams start in one cubicle, and have a goal of getting to another one. (maybe they know what the layout of the maze is, and where their goal is, or maybe not) the path for different teams would go through some of the same doors. So, in order to win, you have to not only understand a door well enough to unlock it, but well enough to lock it back behind you.

Another idea, not as good. For doors that have keys to them, you could put a key in a cube on the other side of maze. So, if an essential door proves entirely impossible, or you've gotten lost and gone to the wrong side of the maze, or something, you can get a key to the door.

good luck with planning this!

**YenTheFirst** · March 4, 2009, 23:48

Re: Odd Idea: Hack a Door Contest

A thought on obtaining doors - when you get the standards/rules set out, teams could bring their own from wherever they are, or, a team could register in advance and get a generic door delivered to the con.

The idea being - teams can design/build the lock at home, register for the competition and put down a deposit on a door, we get a bulk supply of doors, delivered to the Riviera, and teams can pick up the doors there and add there systems.

On the other hand, these doors might be so complicated that building it in the one day before con would be crazy, and teams will have to bring their own anyway.

**streaker69** · March 5, 2009, 06:09

Re: Odd Idea: Hack a Door Contest

Habitat for Humanity Restores (retail outlets of extra parts) are great places to get inexpensive doors and hardware.

**Deviant Ollam** · March 5, 2009, 07:53

Re: Odd Idea: Hack a Door Contest

While i still think this is a very interesting and potentially fun idea (and i'm keen to see it happen somehow... you can count on support from the LP Village in terms of scheduling and promotion) i really must say, as a rather successful contest organizer, that some of the ideas i'm hearing have FAIL written all over them in large block letters.

The cube maze... fucking awesome idea, in theory. Some questions...

1. Where on earth are you going to get the space for that at con?

2. When and how do you plan on constructing everything? If it runs for just a certain period of time is it going to also have to be struck down right afterwards?

3. How are contestants going to be observed by the crowd, short of telling people to hang out in a skybox? How long do they have to run through the maze? It sounds like only one person could run the course at once this way... how many people can the game therefore handle? In short... will this be exciting, boring, or totally un-observable for the crowds?

I don't want to sound negative or anything in my comments here... it would be really neat if this event can happen, but i feel as though these are some key points that you should consider when brainstorming all of these ideas. I didn't invent the rainy day, guys, i'm just trying to make sure you've thought about what you're wearing before you leave the house.

**YenTheFirst** · March 5, 2009, 10:21

Re: Odd Idea: Hack a Door Contest

I had the same thought. For a cube maze type thing to be observable, the best solution I can think of would be to have it on the ground floor somewhere, and people could watch from above - - but then you don't get to see people working the doors. It really would be most exciting if multiple people were in it at the same time, because then you would really have a sense of urgency opening the doors, and you'd have to make sure to close them behind you. Still not sure it would work, though.

Other problems in general - what would the rules be on securing the door? What about a door that's just nailed shut? a door that has an entirely bug-free keypad with a 20 digit code, and secure deadbolt mechanism?
what would the rules be on opening it? Is a strong kick allowed? saws? but if not that, what about screwdrivers and disassembling the door? or prying components off the door?

thinking about it - the most sensible rule would be that the contestant must restore the door to working order in order to count it as 'complete', and, possibly, the door must have the ability to be opened and shut back by someone who doesn't have the key.
I think if there were some sort of cube maze, that would provide a motivation for those two conditions that would be stronger than just setting them down as rules. You'd want your door to be re-lockable, so that if one person opens it, it's not permanently open, and a rat in the maze would want to make sure they could lock it back (maybe even lock it back better than it originally was :), so as not to help out the other contestants.

Perhaps instead of an actual cube maze (which sounds fun, but difficult), you could just set up a gauntlet of doors? Although then there would be an advantage/ disadvantaged o going first or last.

Another idea for crowd observation - A cube maze with tons of security cameras. Big Brother fun. :). Perhaps you could also put the occasional monitor inside the maze, so contestants get a glimpse at what each other is doing.

**XROM** · March 5, 2009, 14:07

Re: Odd Idea: Hack a Door Contest

While I may not have the best idea of the crowd and layout having never been to Defcon, I do think that the maze idea would be a bit...large and complex. I'm all about complex, but for the first year of a contest simple is always better.

A simple solution would be to have a line of doors along the wall of a hallway/room. After successfully defeating the security for the door you could have the team/individual write their name on a piece of paper on the other side of the door(camera instead of writing?). At the end you could count up total points.

This would also give anyone who wanted to watch the opportunity to move around freely outside of the contest area and see what is going on. Perhaps rope off an area for contestants only.

That's my pennies worth anyway.

**Schuyler** · March 20, 2009, 15:28

Re: Odd Idea: Hack a Door Contest

Re: Cutting the power. That's why you have the door fail secure.

If this happens, I'll bring a crew of people with a badass door. I promise you that. :)

**LosT** · March 23, 2009, 23:11

Re: Odd Idea: Hack a Door Contest

I bring enough crap to con...not bringing a door...
:)

1057

**Shox** · March 29, 2009, 05:31

Re: Odd Idea: Hack a Door Contest

While I probably would not participate in this contest I would definitely attend!

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