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  • "Secure Flight" Initiative

    Anybody seen this? Begins today and is "enhanced" in August.

    http://www.nbc12.com/Global/story.asp?S=10332150

    the reason I am posting it is because I regularly check the TSA website for new and fun ways that the TSA will annoy, errr, enhance the traveling public's safety. No banner or headline link on the TSA home page as of 8:28am CDT, nor have I seen one in the past. However, the information about the program is buried here:

    http://www.tsa.gov/what_we_do/layers...ght/index.shtm

    Thoughts?

    Regards,

    Valkyrie
    ______________________________________________
    sapere aude

  • #2
    Re: "Secure Flight" Initiative

    Originally posted by valkyrie View Post
    Thoughts?
    But it will make flights more secure!
    "\x74\x68\x65\x70\x72\x65\x7a\x39\x38";

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    • #3
      Re: "Secure Flight" Initiative

      So, if I read that correctly (I probably didn't), if you book online your still fine until they update their sites, which has to be done by next year?
      And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts, And I looked and behold: a pale horse. And his name, that sat on him, was Death. And Hell followed with him.

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      • #4
        Re: "Secure Flight" Initiative

        It's stupid. My driver's license doesn't have my "full name", just a middle initial. Hell, in this state, we don't even have pictures on our licenses. Plus, my name has a suffix on it, that is on the license, but that I've never seen space for on an airline reservation system.

        Moreover, my license doesn't match other IDs, such as my passport that does have my full name, including both my middle name and suffix, or other IDs which skip my middle name, middle initial, suffix, or all three.

        Are the TSA agents so poorly trained (or have such low IQ's) that they can't distinguish the fact that a minor variation in a name on two pieces of paper is the same person? That's a rhetorical question, but it does reflect very poorly on the caliber of people that are doing screenings.

        This is just going to add confusion and false positives. Anyone flying with a fake ID will just make sure that everything matches, because they will check out this type of rule before hand. Who will the TSA catch with this? The people who fly infrequently will get detained or refused flights because the skipped putting their middle name on the reservation system.

        Stupid, stupid, stupid.
        Last edited by Thorn; May 15, 2009, 09:08.
        Thorn
        "If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to be a horrible warning." - Catherine Aird

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: "Secure Flight" Initiative

          Originally posted by HighWiz View Post
          So, if I read that correctly (I probably didn't), if you book online your still fine until they update their sites, which has to be done by next year?
          That's an interesting question. The carefully ambiguous response to that question is contained here:

          http://www.tsa.gov/what_we_do/layers...#traveler_faqs

          "...should not cause a problem." I anticipate as meaning that this will be subjectively applied by individual TSA agents, depending on how they are feeling toward a perspective passenger at any given time. :-)

          Regards,

          valkyrie
          __________________________________________________ ______
          sapere aude

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          • #6
            Re: "Secure Flight" Initiative

            goddamnit this strikes me as so fucking stupid. all this is going to do, in my opinion, is prevent average citizens from successfully getting on board the occasional flight because their boss, uncle, or other casual acquaintance made a booking too hastily for them.

            how come no one seems to realize that the absolute simple plan to get around this is...
            1. terrorist network targets, let's say, PanAm flight 109

            2. clean-record guy Frank Q. Smith books a seat on PanAm 109

            3. Kahled Q. AmericaHater* and his five friends all book other flights, ones to simple destinations designed to not raise flags. they proceed to the airport and attempt to check-in

            4. All but one or two of the AmericaHater fliers clear security, given that name-based watch lists are all horseshit anyway.

            5. Frank Q. Smith meets the rest of the AmericaHaters in a bathroom and they exchange weapons or plans or just goodbyes. But most of all, the exchange their silly inkjet-generated boarding passes.

            6. Frank Smith walks up to the gate where a no-name flight to somewhere in Iowa is taking off. He pretends to be Kahled AmericaHater and boards, or gets hassled, it doesn't matter because moments prior...

            7. Kahled AmericaHater boards PanAm 109 as Frank Smith and is not questioned at all. In flight he can hatch a plan or just get to his destination without being easily tracked.**

            * or Terry Q. ZogBuster... just to be fair and non-baised

            ** this sort of technique works equally well for people on the run who want to hide their route

            i really don't understand what they're trying to prevent. Are "cleared lists" and other watch list initiatives like this supposed to just prevent "bad" people from moving around the country with ease? Or are they allegedly going to protect the flights themselves from a bomb or a threat actor while in the air?

            Personally, i would like to see us all flying without any ID because it would force the security model for air travel to focus on behavioral checking as opposed to name checking and it would have to base all in-flight security around the notion that "bad" people can still sometimes get on planes and therefore the whole system should be designed around making sure that once they're up there they still can't do anything worse than stinking up the bathroom.
            "I'll admit I had an OiNK account and frequented it quite often… What made OiNK a great place was that it was like the world's greatest record store… iTunes kind of feels like Sam Goody to me. I don't feel cool when I go there. I'm tired of seeing John Mayer's face pop up. I feel like I'm being hustled when I visit there, and I don't think their product is that great. DRM, low bit rate, etc... OiNK it existed because it filled a void of what people want."
            - Trent Reznor

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            • #7
              Re: "Secure Flight" Initiative

              Originally posted by Thorn View Post
              It's stupid. My driver's license don't have my "full name", just a middle initial. Hell, in this state, we don't even have pictures on our licenses. Plus, my name has a suffix on it, that is on the license, but that I've never seen space for on an airline reservation system.

              Moreover, my license doesn't match other IDs, such as my passport that does have my full name, including both my middle name and suffix, or other IDs which skip my middle name, middle initial, suffix, or all three.
              The FAQ "encourages" you to ensure that all of your documents match up in the future.

              Originally posted by Deviant Ollam

              1. terrorist network targets, let's say, PanAm flight 109

              2. clean-record guy Frank Q. Smith books a seat on PanAm 109

              3. Kahled Q. AmericaHater* and his five friends all book other flights, ones to simple destinations designed to not raise flags. they proceed to the airport and attempt to check-in

              4. All but one or two of the AmericaHater fliers clear security, given that name-based watch lists are all horseshit anyway.

              5. Frank Q. Smith meets the rest of the AmericaHaters in a bathroom and they exchange weapons or plans or just goodbyes. But most of all, the exchange their silly inkjet-generated boarding passes.
              And ID's. This is important. I don't know about you, but I have run into random GATE CHECKS by the TSA in the past two months.

              Stupid, stupid, stupid.
              Not what I would consider to be the wisest course of action, no.

              Regards,

              valkyrie
              _________________________________________________
              sapere aude

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: "Secure Flight" Initiative

                Originally posted by valkyrie View Post
                The FAQ "encourages" you to ensure that all of your documents match up in the future.
                I'm sure it does, but the fact of the matter is that none of the agencies collect the exact same information. The US State Dept collects some things for the passport, which aren't the same as the DMV, which aren't the same as other agencies. I don't see this happening just because the TSA says so. Like I said, all I see this doing is causing false positives for those people who fly infrequently.

                The first gramma from Peoria who is prevented by the TSA from joining the family in Disney World for Little Timmy's terminal Make-A-Wish trip is going to make them look like a bunch of damned fools or worse.
                Thorn
                "If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to be a horrible warning." - Catherine Aird

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: "Secure Flight" Initiative

                  Hmm, I am flying in about two weeks and booked my flight at the begining of april or so. This will definitely be interesting.

                  I'll see if me, being in the military, will let me bypass anything at all.
                  Saving the world one computer at a time...

                  or possibly destroying, I haven't figured that out yet.

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                  • #10
                    Re: "Secure Flight" Initiative

                    I was chatting with an acquaintance a few weeks ago and she had the unique problem of having a very long, hyphenated name and that she uses her middle name most of the time due to a stalker in her past.

                    Airline booking sites would accept her name (the field was long enough) but when you print the boarding pass, it would only print the first part of her last name before the hyphen, which fails to match her ID which causes no end of hassles, all to to truncation of her name by a damn printer.
                    Never drink anything larger than your head!





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                    • #11
                      Re: "Secure Flight" Initiative

                      Originally posted by Thorn View Post
                      I'm sure it does, but the fact of the matter is that none of the agencies collect the exact same information. The US State Dept collects some things for the passport, which aren't the same as the DMV, which aren't the same as other agencies. I don't see this happening just because the TSA says so. Like I said, all I see this doing is causing false positives for those people who fly infrequently.
                      TFB Theory: You're right, not everyone collects the same data, so this is an effort for a further push towards a nationwide identity card.
                      A third party security audit is the IT equivalent of a colonoscopy. It's long, intrusive, very uncomfortable, and when it's done, you'll have seen things you really didn't want to see, and you'll never forget that you've had one.

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                      • #12
                        Re: "Secure Flight" Initiative

                        Originally posted by streaker69 View Post
                        TFB Theory: You're right, not everyone collects the same data, so this is an effort for a further push towards a nationwide identity card.
                        I didn't want to say it, but I fear you may be correct...

                        "Your papers please..."

                        Regards,

                        valkyrie
                        ____________________________________________
                        sapere aude

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: "Secure Flight" Initiative

                          Originally posted by streaker69 View Post
                          TFB Theory: You're right, not everyone collects the same data, so this is an effort for a further push towards a nationwide identity card.
                          Originally posted by valkyrie View Post
                          I didn't want to say it, but I fear you may be correct...

                          "Your papers please..."
                          Funny, as I was typing out about all those IDs were different, I had the same thought.
                          Thorn
                          "If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to be a horrible warning." - Catherine Aird

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: "Secure Flight" Initiative

                            Im actually surprised we haven't gone to a uniform ID system a long time ago. Each state puts in their own anti counterfeit designs into the ID's but then when traveling to another state do they know what to look for? I've run into a few people who admitted they had moved state to state multiple times to avoid being arrested. Apparently no fear that if pulled over the police would see warrants from other states.

                            Like the lady in the article though, I once had to call to change something stupid, and they refused to change it without a fee. Then they told me it could be changed for free at the counter when I arrived at the airport.

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                            • #15
                              Re: "Secure Flight" Initiative

                              Originally posted by [Syntax] View Post
                              Im actually surprised we haven't gone to a uniform ID system a long time ago. Each state puts in their own anti counterfeit designs into the ID's but then when traveling to another state do they know what to look for?
                              Police have books that show what a true ID from other states look like, assuming their departments care about them and actually by them.

                              Originally posted by [Syntax] View Post
                              I've run into a few people who admitted they had moved state to state multiple times to avoid being arrested. Apparently no fear that if pulled over the police would see warrants from other states.
                              As far as warrants go, it depends on what level the warrant is at, and whether the prosecutor is willing to extradite from other states. Most misdemeanor warrants will never go beyond a state line. It simply isn't economical to extradite every drunk who got in a fight, failed to show for a court appearance, and got a bench warrant issued in their name. Minor felony warrants may be flagged to go regional, and major felony warrants will be set nationally or even internationally.
                              Thorn
                              "If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to be a horrible warning." - Catherine Aird

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