What's the point of defcon?

[evel aka matt]

Re: What's the point of defcon?

Any kind of 'pre-reg' will actually SLOW things down. Having two lines, validating names, and just cleaning up the "mess" and bill backs from stolen cards is a pain. CASH is king and works well. I run a very efficient reg desk even when my supplies are messed up.

TW

TW, I think you run a mean reg desk, and I don't think the problem is on your end at all. I think it just has to do with the amount of people reg'ing. A pre-reg wouldn't slow anything down if it was a mailed-badges-only kind of thing. Yknow, pay your fee & get your badge mailed to you, no on-site pick up allowed. Anyway, yeah, it seems like pre-reg is as long gone as $40 entry. Not necessarily a bad thing..

[Schuyler]

Re: What's the point of defcon?

TW, I think you run a mean reg desk, and I don't think the problem is on your end at all. I think it just has to do with the amount of people reg'ing. A pre-reg wouldn't slow anything down if it was a mailed-badges-only kind of thing. Yknow, pay your fee & get your badge mailed to you, no on-site pick up allowed. Anyway, yeah, it seems like pre-reg is as long gone as $40 entry. Not necessarily a bad thing..

They don't let the badges out early. So either you are selling vouchers to get a real badge, so you'll have a badge-exchange line right off the bat, or you are selling "no-exchange" paper badges, so people pre-regging wouldn't be able to get a badge.

However, either way they'll still have to concern themselves with the authenticity of the vouchers. So either they can set up a way to confirm people with vouchers are legit, which will eat a ton of time, or create intricate enough vouchers to mitigate concern over the community just reproducing them. And that would add a lot of time & man hours to the design of the vouchers.

[evel aka matt]

Re: What's the point of defcon?

Well why not let badges out early? if it's because of the badge-hacking contest, then ship out different, pre-reg badges. They could be laminated plastic for all I care. Like I said, I don't think that we'll ever have pre-reg again, but it's not an insurmountable problem.

[shrdlu]

Re: What's the point of defcon?

Well why not let badges out early? if it's because of the badge-hacking contest, then ship out different, pre-reg badges. They could be laminated plastic for all I care. Like I said, I don't think that we'll ever have pre-reg again, but it's not an insurmountable problem.

You're going to lose this one. Really, the cash only thing is the way it works best. Having been through the hell of a line at Shmoocon where everyone was preregistered (a couple of years ago), I can tell you that lines are simply the immovable object, and the force to change is oh, so not irrisistable.

I think it works just fine. Each year new wrinkles show up, and get the smackdown, but the all-cash thing really seems to be the right answer, at least for defcon.

[streaker69]

Re: What's the point of defcon?

You're going to lose this one. Really, the cash only thing is the way it works best. Having been through the hell of a line at Shmoocon where everyone was preregistered (a couple of years ago), I can tell you that lines are simply the immovable object, and the force to change is oh, so not irrisistable.

I've always thought that the line at Shmoo was rather smooth. What's stressful is getting the tickets in the first place, it's almost as exciting as sniping on Ebay, well, maybe a little more exciting.

[Dark Tangent]

Re: What's the point of defcon?

Pre registration means records. One of my business design philosophies is to minimize legal issues, cash works for this and leaves nothing tempting for people to go on a fishing expedition for.

[Rewt Daemon]

Re: What's the point of defcon?

The point of Defcon is to give me a place to run the Mystery Challenge. ;)

LosT

I HAVE to get in on that next year... I hear Defcon is pointless without it

[xor]

Re: What's the point of defcon?

Pre registration means records. One of my business design philosophies is to minimize legal issues, cash works for this and leaves nothing tempting for people to go on a fishing expedition for.

Not to forget the credit card companies as well as paypal rape you with 5% - 10% surcharges and transaction fees.

xor

In this economy I know many businesses that are dumping their credit card access and just sticking an atm in the business.

You could always run Defcon in exchange for sexual favors

[sintax_error]

Re: What's the point of defcon?

Not to forget the credit card companies as well as paypal rape you with 5% - 10% surcharges and transaction fees.

xor

In this economy I know many businesses that are dumping their credit card access and just sticking an atm in the business.

You could always run Defcon in exchange for sexual favors

Any man that can handle 8000+ sexual favors in a 3 day period... Well hell, he's just in the wrong business

[evel aka matt]

Re: What's the point of defcon?

Not to forget the credit card companies as well as paypal rape you with 5% - 10% surcharges and transaction fees.

Really? 'cause I pay PP <4% with my basic Premier account.

[astcell]

Re: What's the point of defcon?

RIV TACTICS:
Who can read the minds of these folks any more. We do what they want and the rules change mid stream. parties shut down before they even happened, pool closed for bees (bees can't swim BTW), it's very discouraging. The only other hotel I know of it the AP and while their security guards were dicks, they were at least predictable. Maybe that comes with the non-gambling status.

PRICE:
I seem to recall the price going from $50 to $75 after DC10 due to riff-raff and other undesirables. Maybe I am incorrect but the chatter on the boards was that troublemakers needed to be discouraged from attending. I also recall an open letter fro DT to the community wondering if Defcon ought to continue. Raising the price to keep out the idiots won't work all around, that's why we have goons and self-policing.

BADGES:
How about ordering 12,000 badges. If they do not all sell then the rest can be sold, at cost, to the folks who want to hack the badge, this will give them more than one shot at it. Slip with a soldering iron and a new badge will be another $120. Not entertaining. And if there are extras toss them on ebay. Have you seen what the badges are bringing now to those who posted them for auction?

[renderman]

Re: What's the point of defcon?

BADGES:
How about ordering 12,000 badges. If they do not all sell then the rest can be sold, at cost, to the folks who want to hack the badge, this will give them more than one shot at it. Slip with a soldering iron and a new badge will be another $120. Not entertaining. And if there are extras toss them on ebay. Have you seen what the badges are bringing now to those who posted them for auction?

That's a particularly good idea. Wouldn't want to sell them at con for less than registration due to the obvious vulnerability, however the ability to turn in a fried one and replace it for ~$5 or so might be desirable with the fried ones going for sale cheap on ebay as souvenirs or for scavenging.

The other option is that some people who really want to hack the badge could get in a separate line for a bag-o-parts version that is un-assembled but contains more goodies to solder on due to the assembly cost savings. Regular assembled badges would still do something cool but not have some pads populated.

Well worth considering

[sintax_error]

Re: What's the point of defcon?

I like where your heads are on that point, AST and Render. Of course I'd love to hear KingPin's thoughts on the idea. Would that be too much spoon feeding as far as Hack The Badge goes? One thing I'd love to see are parts kits available for sale during reg, badge alone = $120, badge and parts = $120+whatever needs to be charged.

[madnos]

Re: What's the point of defcon?

I have been attending defcon for 6 years now and I love each year more and more. I am not so much a social butterfly in the sense that I know everyone, but I enjoy meeting new people and learning.

The ninja party has been something that I have always wanted to attend. It always seems like I am too late for a badge when it comes to this party. I don't feel like I can just go up to a goon and ask if I can get a badge. I know I always feel like the fail when I try to get a badge and I am told there are no badges left, only to find out more somehow show up.

I know many of the private parties are for those who have many friends in the community or are considered l33t by the masses. However, for those of us that do not have the friends, events, research papers, new exploits etc... how do we get an invit? I have read many posts about getting a badge, but it seems very hit or miss.

I dont know if the ninja crew ever thought about this, but what about setting up an event to compete for a badge to get into the party? I know I have read/heard about events at Defcon that included party badges, but I don't know if this happens on a regular basis.

So, my main question is what does someone need to do to get an invit to the ninja party?

Next, registration works great. The line moved very fast for me and besides not having the badges this year, there was very few problems. Paypal only adds pain to the mix and this process works well at the moment. No need to fix this since it is not broken and cash is generally not traceable. ;)

Thanks

xs

[Deviant Ollam]

Re: What's the point of defcon?

So, my main question is what does someone need to do to get an invit to the ninja party?

send hookers (redheads preferred) to a room of our designation at a specific time and i will personally see to it that you get a badge. heh... one badge per call girl.