What's the point of defcon?

[astcell]

Re: What's the point of defcon?

RIV TACTICS:
Who can read the minds of these folks any more. We do what they want and the rules change mid stream. parties shut down before they even happened, pool closed for bees (bees can't swim BTW), it's very discouraging. The only other hotel I know of it the AP and while their security guards were dicks, they were at least predictable. Maybe that comes with the non-gambling status.

PRICE:
I seem to recall the price going from $50 to $75 after DC10 due to riff-raff and other undesirables. Maybe I am incorrect but the chatter on the boards was that troublemakers needed to be discouraged from attending. I also recall an open letter fro DT to the community wondering if Defcon ought to continue. Raising the price to keep out the idiots won't work all around, that's why we have goons and self-policing.

BADGES:
How about ordering 12,000 badges. If they do not all sell then the rest can be sold, at cost, to the folks who want to hack the badge, this will give them more than one shot at it. Slip with a soldering iron and a new badge will be another $120. Not entertaining. And if there are extras toss them on ebay. Have you seen what the badges are bringing now to those who posted them for auction?

[evel aka matt]

Re: What's the point of defcon?

Not to forget the credit card companies as well as paypal rape you with 5% - 10% surcharges and transaction fees.

Really? 'cause I pay PP <4% with my basic Premier account.

[sintax_error]

Re: What's the point of defcon?

Not to forget the credit card companies as well as paypal rape you with 5% - 10% surcharges and transaction fees.

xor

In this economy I know many businesses that are dumping their credit card access and just sticking an atm in the business.

You could always run Defcon in exchange for sexual favors

Any man that can handle 8000+ sexual favors in a 3 day period... Well hell, he's just in the wrong business

[xor]

Re: What's the point of defcon?

Pre registration means records. One of my business design philosophies is to minimize legal issues, cash works for this and leaves nothing tempting for people to go on a fishing expedition for.

Not to forget the credit card companies as well as paypal rape you with 5% - 10% surcharges and transaction fees.

xor

In this economy I know many businesses that are dumping their credit card access and just sticking an atm in the business.

You could always run Defcon in exchange for sexual favors

[Rewt Daemon]

Re: What's the point of defcon?

The point of Defcon is to give me a place to run the Mystery Challenge. ;)

LosT

I HAVE to get in on that next year... I hear Defcon is pointless without it

[Dark Tangent]

Re: What's the point of defcon?

Pre registration means records. One of my business design philosophies is to minimize legal issues, cash works for this and leaves nothing tempting for people to go on a fishing expedition for.

[streaker69]

Re: What's the point of defcon?

You're going to lose this one. Really, the cash only thing is the way it works best. Having been through the hell of a line at Shmoocon where everyone was preregistered (a couple of years ago), I can tell you that lines are simply the immovable object, and the force to change is oh, so not irrisistable.

I've always thought that the line at Shmoo was rather smooth. What's stressful is getting the tickets in the first place, it's almost as exciting as sniping on Ebay, well, maybe a little more exciting.

[shrdlu]

Re: What's the point of defcon?

Well why not let badges out early? if it's because of the badge-hacking contest, then ship out different, pre-reg badges. They could be laminated plastic for all I care. Like I said, I don't think that we'll ever have pre-reg again, but it's not an insurmountable problem.

You're going to lose this one. Really, the cash only thing is the way it works best. Having been through the hell of a line at Shmoocon where everyone was preregistered (a couple of years ago), I can tell you that lines are simply the immovable object, and the force to change is oh, so not irrisistable.

I think it works just fine. Each year new wrinkles show up, and get the smackdown, but the all-cash thing really seems to be the right answer, at least for defcon.

[evel aka matt]

Re: What's the point of defcon?

Well why not let badges out early? if it's because of the badge-hacking contest, then ship out different, pre-reg badges. They could be laminated plastic for all I care. Like I said, I don't think that we'll ever have pre-reg again, but it's not an insurmountable problem.

[Schuyler]

Re: What's the point of defcon?

TW, I think you run a mean reg desk, and I don't think the problem is on your end at all. I think it just has to do with the amount of people reg'ing. A pre-reg wouldn't slow anything down if it was a mailed-badges-only kind of thing. Yknow, pay your fee & get your badge mailed to you, no on-site pick up allowed. Anyway, yeah, it seems like pre-reg is as long gone as $40 entry. Not necessarily a bad thing..

They don't let the badges out early. So either you are selling vouchers to get a real badge, so you'll have a badge-exchange line right off the bat, or you are selling "no-exchange" paper badges, so people pre-regging wouldn't be able to get a badge.

However, either way they'll still have to concern themselves with the authenticity of the vouchers. So either they can set up a way to confirm people with vouchers are legit, which will eat a ton of time, or create intricate enough vouchers to mitigate concern over the community just reproducing them. And that would add a lot of time & man hours to the design of the vouchers.

[evel aka matt]

Re: What's the point of defcon?

Any kind of 'pre-reg' will actually SLOW things down. Having two lines, validating names, and just cleaning up the "mess" and bill backs from stolen cards is a pain. CASH is king and works well. I run a very efficient reg desk even when my supplies are messed up.

TW

TW, I think you run a mean reg desk, and I don't think the problem is on your end at all. I think it just has to do with the amount of people reg'ing. A pre-reg wouldn't slow anything down if it was a mailed-badges-only kind of thing. Yknow, pay your fee & get your badge mailed to you, no on-site pick up allowed. Anyway, yeah, it seems like pre-reg is as long gone as $40 entry. Not necessarily a bad thing..

[TechnoWeenie]

Re: What's the point of defcon?

Any kind of 'pre-reg' will actually SLOW things down. Having two lines, validating names, and just cleaning up the "mess" and bill backs from stolen cards is a pain. CASH is king and works well. I run a very efficient reg desk even when my supplies are messed up. I dream of a day (next year?) when everything is plentiful and on time. Folks ask me how come I do not have “reg babes” doing the cash transactions… oh how I would love to sit back and work with a bunch of cute girls, however I know even this will slow things down as folks flirt, talk, and just stare at them. Hence I have always preferred the so called ‘reg grannies’.

I do read the suggestions.. keep them coming, but so far, most everyone agrees that we just need the supplies on time, and plentiful.

TW

Registration wasn't bad at all, once the badges arrived.

I was there Thursday at 10:00-ish, and yes, the line was long, and didn't move at all. It was a good chance to meet and talk to people. Once the badges arrived, the line moved very quickly, and everything worked smoothly.

If there's no badge shipping SNAFUs next year (BY CHRISTMAS!!!), registration is not a problem at all, and pre-registration entirely unnecessary. (except, perhaps, for securing an electronic badge instead of the paper one.)

[YenTheFirst]

Re: What's the point of defcon?

Registration wasn't bad at all, once the badges arrived.

I was there Thursday at 10:00-ish, and yes, the line was long, and didn't move at all. It was a good chance to meet and talk to people. Once the badges arrived, the line moved very quickly, and everything worked smoothly.

If there's no badge shipping SNAFUs next year (BY CHRISTMAS!!!), registration is not a problem at all, and pre-registration entirely unnecessary. (except, perhaps, for securing an electronic badge instead of the paper one.)

[Voltage Spike]

Re: What's the point of defcon?

Regarding the pool, I forgot to ask: why was it an unmonitored gathering place Wednesday night, but a secured area where we weren't allowed to sit the remaining nights?

My suggestions weren't entirely baseless though DT. With a convention of this size I think we're going to have to come to grips that pre-reg is needed.

I for one am very public about being at con. Allow for on site cash reg for the paranoid and paypal for the rest of us.

I still don't understand how this makes anything better. I hand six bills, I get a badge. Time of transaction was literally about four seconds. Perhaps other people weren't preparing their money ahead of time or were asking questions of the Reg staff?

If your goal is simply to bar people from attending, then you are simply asking most of my friends to not attend. Not everyone has the flexibilty to set their schedule six months in advance. That, and I think you'd be removing a lot of great people who don't consider Defcon as a priority. Not everyone wants to roll out of bed at 8am on a special day (which may or may not have made its way onto the calendar) to fight in line for access to an overloaded web site in the hopes that they might secure a ticket.

Crowding is a slight issue, but it is mostly the attendees causing traffic issues (by not being aware of their surroundings). It also isn't that bad compared to, say, a popular music venue or CES.

Anyway, I notice that there aren't really complaints about the contests, the speeches, or the villages. So apparently the Riviera provides for most of the conference. If they could bring back the Splash bar, open the pool area, and relax about room gatherings that aren't out of hand then I think we'd be set.

Oh, and better food (for people that remember to eat throughout the weekend).

[Chris]

Re: What's the point of defcon?

The point of DEF CON to me is that it's the one time of year that pretty much all of my friends are in the same (general) place at the same time. The parties are important to me, but I miss the Splash bar as much as anything else. It was a Vortex that pretty much everyone had to walk by and get sucked into to hang out for a while and catch up.

The thing is, the point of DEF CON is going to be different for each person. Flea's post is a perfect example. To him and many other people the pool is extremely important. I have never been in the pool at DEF CON (at ANY venue). It's important to me only in the fact that some of my friends (who are important to me) look to the pool as a highlight of their DEF CON. It's very easy to get tunnel vision and assume that if it's not important to you it isn't important enough to matter and I find that attitude frustrating.

I ended up rambling on this a bit more than I meant to but I think my general point got across. I don't think Kallahar's goal in asking this quiestion was to provide a definitive answer as much as to provide a forum for everyone to explain what's important to them. Every person that comes to DEF CON, attendee and staff alike, have different expectations of what they are going to get out of it and what's important to them...what "makes" their DEF CON. Let's try to keep this post in that spirit and talk about what we LIKE about DEF CON and why we keep coming back year after year rather than minimize the facets of the CON that other people like but we personally could care less about.