Research on Cyber Warfare

[streaker69]

Re: Research on Cyber Warfare

You should probably read these two threads as well.

https://forum.defcon.org/showthread....ighlight=scada

https://forum.defcon.org/showthread....ighlight=scada

[theprez98]

Re: Research on Cyber Warfare

Also something to consider, profit drives this industry. If there's no threat, there's no profit.

This is generally a good statement that applies to a lot of things far beyond the "cyber warfare" industry!

[AgentDarkApple]

Re: Research on Cyber Warfare

streaker69, Georgia was going to be an example. I'm not sure if I can narrow the title down to "Information Warfare and the Threat of Internet based Terrorism" because I might throw in something about UAVs/drones or using nanotech - then again, I might end up with enough that I don't need to mention those. Usually I gather as many sources as possible then narrow the focus of my paper just to make sure I have enough - I guess that's backwards from how people usually do it.

Now you guys see why I need help lol. A lot of the info out there is hokey, overhyped, severely skewed, or outdated. And some of the current events examples focus more on the reporter's speculation than on how the event went down. I don't want my paper to be the same crap-quality as everyone else's. Media Kool-aid is not research.

[streaker69]

Re: Research on Cyber Warfare

streaker69, I was actually thinking about the power grid vulnerability and how it could be used in conjunction with another attack. A power outage by itself isn't too crippling, but a power outage in a large city that just suffered a physical attack as well would be enough to make people hurt themselves - mass hysteria and such.

So you're thinking about what happened in Georgia recently?

I know using "cyber" is kind of cliche, but it seems to be the government and military's catch-all term - cyber security czar, Cyber Command, Cyber Security Act, etc. I'm open to suggestions for something that sounds better lol. "Information Warfare and the Threat of Cyber Terrorism" - maybe?

"Information Warfare and the Threat of Internet based Terrorism"

Personally, I'm only gonna be worried when I hear a billion phones ring at the same time. That's when we'll know the Lawnmower man has truly taken over the system. :)

[AgentDarkApple]

Re: Research on Cyber Warfare

streaker69, I was actually thinking about the power grid vulnerability and how it could be used in conjunction with another attack. A power outage by itself isn't too crippling, but a power outage in a large city that just suffered a physical attack as well would be enough to make people hurt themselves - mass hysteria and such.

I know using "cyber" is kind of cliche, but it seems to be the government and military's catch-all term - cyber security czar, Cyber Command, Cyber Security Act, etc. I'm open to suggestions for something that sounds better lol. "Information Warfare and the Threat of Cyber Terrorism" - maybe?

[streaker69]

Re: Research on Cyber Warfare

That's why I'm looking for some help and advice here. I know you guys will help point me in the direction of expert, legit stuff and won't let me pass off a bunch of hyped-up crap as "research". I don't want my paper to be "The Eager Idiot's Guide to Cyber Warfare"

You can then follow it up with the "Dummys Guide to Cyber Warfare".

Scare tactics is a common selling technique and it's used anywhere things are sold. Much like the extended warranty scam that many places sell. Any time a sales stumpet comes in here and uses scare tactics for anything I normally starting being mean to them until they excuse themselves and leave.

Personally, I would not use 'cyber' in a paper at all, it sounds too hokey and too much hype already. That's what the uninformed use. You paper is basically about criminal hacking by foreign nation states. At least that's way I see it when you're going to use terms like 'warfare'. I doubt that the humans over a /b/ would even attempt to attack something that anyone really cared about like the power grid or water infrastructure as that would put the focus of the feds directly on them, and then I bet they'd find out how anonymous they're really not. So they can go ahead and play around with random people on the inturwebs.

As for attacking infrastructure by foreign nation states, the only system that would make any sense to attack is the power grid since it's interlinked, but things like water, sewer and gas are relatively disconnected from each other. Most of the evidence I've found on attacks on these systems has been internal. Now I don't count DDoS attacks as they're just an inconvenience and normally targeted against websites and not actually the control systems of the utility.

Edit: One more thing, even if there was an attack on the power grid, and someone ended up blacking out an area, I don't think it would cause that much wide spread panic. As an example, look at the North East blackout of I believe 2004. Several states went dark, PA didn't because the operators disconnected us from the grid when the cascade started, but even then there wasn't chaos. People went on with their lives, emergency services responded properly and nothing really bad happened.

Panic would only set in, if the media gets in there and starts hyping the event with talk of cyber warfare and attacks from other countries.

[AgentDarkApple]

Re: Research on Cyber Warfare

valkyrie, thanks for the generous offer, but I was able to find some places online that still sell the book.

[AgentDarkApple]

Re: Research on Cyber Warfare

renderman, I know a lot of companies (cyber security or otherwise) love to use scare tactics to get people to buy their products. That's hilarious that the guy cited you then didn't know you were anywhere around. I'm sure he felt like a moron later

That's why I'm looking for some help and advice here. I know you guys will help point me in the direction of expert, legit stuff and won't let me pass off a bunch of hyped-up crap as "research". I don't want my paper to be "The Eager Idiot's Guide to Cyber Warfare"

[valkyrie]

Re: Research on Cyber Warfare

Thanks for recommending Secrets and Lies. I actually used some Schneier as a resource for an assignment last week. I will see what I can find from Winn Schwartau as well.

I'll be glad to post my paper on here after it has been turned in and graded. Since my school uses turnitin.com, I don't want to risk posting it until after it is graded. The paper is due toward the end of November, as the semesters at my school are only 8 weeks long.

Winn's "Information Warfare" is dated, but I cut my teeth on it, as well as most of Schneier's works. ISBN for Winn's book is 1-56025-132-8. If you can't find it, I will lend my copy if you would like but I want it back. :-) If you would like to borrow it, pm me directly.

Would like to see your paper after it's turned in and graded.

Regards,

valkyrie
__________________________________________________
sapere aude

[renderman]

Re: Research on Cyber Warfare

I was speaking at a conference a few weeks ago that was an energy and communications security con that drove me up the wall with the few talks I went to.

Most of the speakers were employees of vendors sponsoring the show and the first thing I noticed was that if not consciously, at least sub-consciously they were representing their company. Every talk was 'Here's why you need to deploy technology X in your infrastructure. Oh, and we happen to sell that product or consult on that'. They had a conflict of interest and were not helping the attendees much.

Most every vendor pushed the Aurora video of the generator self destructing as evident of the dire consequences of cyber warfare. I wanted to strangle them after the 3rd mention

On vendor whos talk I didn't attend unfortunately apparently mentioned me and several projects of mine as evidence of threats being local (which I have no issue with) but then apparently proceeded to provide solutions which wouldn't work as proof he and his company were capable of countering me. Well, it seems like he didn't know I was attending. The look on his face was priceless when I introduced myself later.

As that spoof article pointed out, riots and accidents are more a threat at the moment. Not that there is'nt risk of things being exacerbated by attackers, but I think the biggest threat right now is peoples complacency and lack of knowledge about how thier immediate world works and the inability to deal with a disaster.

Also something to consider, profit drives this industry. If there's no threat, there's no profit. It's very Orwellian in that you have an ever changing, faceless enemy that their products always seem to be the just in time solution. How much money would be saved over time if we re-invented the protocols causing the issues (or transitioning to secure ones) en mass. Not that attacks would stop, but it gives users the ability to do something about them before they are an epidemic issue.

Yes, I have had a few red bulls this morning, why do you ask...

[datalust]

Re: Research on Cyber Warfare

Might want to look at the cyber-initiatives in progress right now. I won't get into the merits of things like "AF Cyber Command", but they may be relevant for your paper if you want to google them.

Best of luck on getting that degree! A little paper goes a long ways.

[g3k_]

Re: Research on Cyber Warfare

I hate to toot this horn all the time on here, but if you look at internet turf wars between sub-groups on the internet, you might see a nice model for how cyber warfar might work. The *chans are constantly at war with other internet groups, themselves or other entities. http://insurgen.info/wiki/Main_Page is a good catalogue of these "exploits"

[AgentDarkApple]

Re: Research on Cyber Warfare

Haha streaker69 We're not allowed to use wikipedia, but hopefully the links at the bottom will lead me to some good stuff. I know a lot of the talk of cyber warfare is just hype right now, and it scares a lot of people since the majority of the US population relies heavily on technology but is otherwise not tech-savvy. However, I do know some people within the military who think it could become a really big deal. They seem to think that within the next few years, we will be dealing with large-scale attacks from "enemy" nations. That is why I'm looking for more sources from govt and military documents as well as from actual cyber security experts. We're allowed to speculate on the future of cyber warfare in the paper, as long as we have some legit documentation supporting it.

I'll go ahead and post this before someone else does - here is a good satire of how one should write about cyber warfare http://neteffect.foreignpolicy.com/p..._10_easy_steps

It's sad, but a lot of the stuff I've seen so far takes those angles.

[streaker69]

Re: Research on Cyber Warfare

Might help if we know what your topic is other than 'cyber warfare'.

For research I'd suggest getting outside of the cyber warfare field slightly for some perspective on things since cyber warfare is almost impossible to find materials not steeped in rhetoric, fear mongering and self serving interests (IMHO).

Here's your end all/be all definition of cyber-warfare. I'm sure it's completely accurate considering the source.

I agree with you though. The term is more about instilling fear, than anything else. My own research into this has shown that most 'attacks' on infrastructure that have actually caused damage were from the inside, mostly disgruntled employees or ex-employees.

Unless the media is just covering it up so we don't panic and set the couch on fire and spread jello on the floor. <We need a Tin Foil Beanie Icon>

[AgentDarkApple]

Re: Research on Cyber Warfare

renderman, unless my professor makes me focus on a specific aspect, then the paper is going to include a broad overview of cyber warfare, a few examples of the threats and vulnerabilities involved (but I am trying to find very specific instances for this part), how information assurance applies to cyber warfare, and what measures can be taken or are being taken by the US to prepare itself for cyber warfare. Since it is for an Information Assurance class, I have to apply information assurance principles within the paper. I'll also try to keep up with posting any other relevant resources that I find, even if I don't use all of them in the paper. It would be cool if this turns into a resource for all members of the board who are interested in the topic. I will likely keep this information around and add to it throughout the year so I can base my senior seminar project (next year) on cyber warfare too.

Thanks for recommending Secrets and Lies. I actually used some Schneier as a resource for an assignment last week. I will see what I can find from Winn Schwartau as well.

I'll be glad to post my paper on here after it has been turned in and graded. Since my school uses turnitin.com, I don't want to risk posting it until after it is graded. The paper is due toward the end of November, as the semesters at my school are only 8 weeks long.