Education+Sponsorship+payment may lead to a Security Clearance

[TheCotMan]

Re: Getting started in the security field

It looks like points and counter points have been made, and it looks like the issue has been clarified. An apology has been made, and a mistake acknowledged. Let's move on and make the topic more productive...

Let's expand on the topic of discussion in other ways, as it looks like there is agreement now on what was intended.

What kind of problems could this create? If a large enough group of people flock to register with programs like this, and get sponsorship, and complete this process, is it possible to overwhelm the background check process and decrease the quality of review? Will a maximum number of people allowed for sponsorship provide a flow-control mechanism to prevent such an attack?

One idea that has been proposed in the past in defeating background checks, TSA checks, security check-point checks, random search, etc. is to brute-force the attack. If there is only 1 target, but 50 "suicide bombers" heading for that target, only one has to get through. Diversification in the techniques used to not be spotted would also provide feedback to the attacker, and help them understand which attacks work to defeat the system of checks, and
which attacks are detectable.

[I'm going to come back later and clean up this thread and move this discussion off to a new thread]

[theprez98]

Re: Getting started in the security field

There is no contradiction. My original post was overly simplified as a result of underestimating the comprehension of the reader. For this I appologize.

So, are you saying we're unable to comprehend the issues regarding security clearances?

The problem with your over-simplification is that it is, frankly, wrong.

[theprez98]

Re: Getting started in the security field

This is going to be a hit and run comment. I'm busy, but can't let this pass.



YOU can't buy a security clearance. You can't pay for it, you can't even request it. Security clearances have been discussed all over the forums (nearly to death), but please please PLEASE don't post things that you're just guessing on.

(posting in this case as a retired INFORMATION SYSTEMS SECURITY OFFICER)

we do really need to have the "security clearance" panel discussion at DEFCON (yes, I know, you don't want to participate...)

[KernelConflag]

Re: Getting started in the security field

There is no contradiction. My original post was overly simplified as a result of underestimating the comprehension of the reader. For this I appologize.

[Thorn]

Re: Getting started in the security field

Why are your comments so hostile?

Probably because you were disrespectful to her.

Remember this?

Study up bud!

That's a bit of a smack in the face, especially if you don't know to whom you're speaking. There's a real presumption of undue familiarity and it's rather condescending.

[KernelConflag]

Re: Getting started in the security field

You are not paying attention. In addition:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp...nguage=printer
http://www.state.gov/m/ds/clearances/c10978.htm

For your future reference:

https://www.cia.gov/careers/opportun...y-officer.html

No, you don't qualify. No, I'm not ex-CIA. Hush, erehwon. Stop laughing.

BTW, it's not "experiancing" it's experiencing, and you're right about your inability to communicate. You're just wrong about everything else. Reading comprehension 101, boy.

Why are your comments so hostile? What im saying is quite simple. A student who graduates from one of those schools as a participant of the 'Years for Service' program, can obtain a clearence while working for a government agency; thereby simplifying the 'how-to find an entry level security job' question.

[Thorn]

Re: Getting started in the security field

We seem to be experiancing a breakdown in communication.

We certainly are, because all of what you've posted thus far seems to be contradictory.

First you infer the someone can effectively buy a clearance ("payup between $1500-3200"). Then you post a link to a document that specifically says you may not get one on your own, and that the portion quoted to you is what you say supports your first post.

Can you clear this apparent contradiction up?

[shrdlu]

Re: Getting started in the security field

We seem to be experiancing a breakdown in communication. The portion of the PDF that you quoted is exactly what i was refering to. A student, as a participant of the 'years for service' program, who graduates from one of the school linked in the original post can obtain a clearance (via paying for the background check).

And yes, the hiring entity must sponsor the actual 'clearence' you recieve. Most any government agency which dedicates resources to IT security can be the hiring entity. (DHS, NSA, CIA, FBI, etc.)

You are not paying attention. In addition:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp...nguage=printer
http://www.state.gov/m/ds/clearances/c10978.htm

For your future reference:

https://www.cia.gov/careers/opportun...y-officer.html

No, you don't qualify. No, I'm not ex-CIA. Hush, erehwon. Stop laughing.

BTW, it's not "experiancing" it's experiencing, and you're right about your inability to communicate. You're just wrong about everything else. Reading comprehension 101, boy.

[KernelConflag]

Re: Getting started in the security field

To quote your linked article, which you may not have read:

It would appear that you cannot just pay to get one, but must be sponsored by an employer as AgentDarkApple stated.

We seem to be experiancing a breakdown in communication. The portion of the PDF that you quoted is exactly what i was refering to. A student, as a participant of the 'years for service' program, who graduates from one of the school linked in the original post can obtain a clearance (via paying for the background check).

And yes, the hiring entity must sponsor the actual 'clearence' you recieve. Most any government agency which dedicates resources to IT security can be the hiring entity. (DHS, NSA, CIA, FBI, etc.)

[streaker69]

Re: Getting started in the security field

See page 3 of this PDF. In the case of my original post, the hiring entity would be DHS as a participant of the 'years for service' program. The $$ you pay is for the background check. Study up bud!
http://www.clearancejobs.com/security_clearance_faq.pdf

To quote your linked article, which you may not have read:

Getting a Clearance
Can I obtain a security clearance on my own?
No. You must be sponsored by a cleared contractor or a government entity. To be sponsored you must be
employed by a cleared contractor (or hired as a consultant) in a position that requires a clearance. As an
exception, a candidate for employment may be submitted for a clearance if the cleared contractor has made
a binding offer of employment and the candidate has accepted the offer. Both the offer and acceptance
must be in writing. The offer of employment must indicate that employment will begin within 30 days of
receiving the clearance.

It would appear that you cannot just pay to get one, but must be sponsored by an employer as AgentDarkApple stated.

[AgentDarkApple]

Re: Getting started in the security field

See page 3 of this PDF. In the case of my original post, the hiring entity would be DHS as a participant of the 'years for service' program. The $$ you pay is for the background check. Study up bud!
http://www.clearancejobs.com/security_clearance_faq.pdf

I looked at the PDF...exactly where does it say that someone can pay to have their own clearance done? Someone who is very familiar with this explained it to me just last week because I was asking what could be done to get a clearance to take certain Master's courses once I finish my current degree. Basically, certain jobs may require that a person takes specialized courses (that require a clearance to take the class) in preparation for that job (Master's level intelligence courses, for example). A person can sign a contract with the employer and is granted an interim clearance in order to take the classes. In order to obtain a real security clearance, a legitimate entity (the employer - military, a government agency, certain government contracting companies, etc) must sponsor the person and pay for the background check and all other steps needed to obtain the clearance. This is up to the company, not the individual. If the background check hits a snag, the interim clearance can be taken away. If the clearance is approved, then the person can complete the courses and must work for the sponsoring employer for the previously agreed upon amount of time, at a minimum.

[KernelConflag]

Re: Getting started in the security field

This is going to be a hit and run comment. I'm busy, but can't let this pass.



YOU can't buy a security clearance. You can't pay for it, you can't even request it. Security clearances have been discussed all over the forums (nearly to death), but please please PLEASE don't post things that you're just guessing on.

(posting in this case as a retired INFORMATION SYSTEMS SECURITY OFFICER)

See page 3 of this PDF. In the case of my original post, the hiring entity would be DHS as a participant of the 'years for service' program. The $$ you pay is for the background check. Study up bud!
http://www.clearancejobs.com/security_clearance_faq.pdf

[shrdlu]

Re: Getting started in the security field

This is going to be a hit and run comment. I'm busy, but can't let this pass.

Demystify the 'getting started in Security' So now you're in school, payup between $1500-3200 during your 2nd year of school to get a security clearance. graduate from one of those schools, work for DHS for 1-2 years under 'years for services' program. After your time with DHS, you should be ok to find something else.

YOU can't buy a security clearance. You can't pay for it, you can't even request it. Security clearances have been discussed all over the forums (nearly to death), but please please PLEASE don't post things that you're just guessing on.

(posting in this case as a retired INFORMATION SYSTEMS SECURITY OFFICER)

[KernelConflag]

Demystify the 'getting started in Security' process.
-Go to one of these schools listed at: https://www.sfs.opm.gov/ContactsPI.asp?p=st#Institute2
for the security program.
-Submit a request for the 'years for service' program for the DHS.
info here: http://www.dhs.gov/files/programs/cybersecurity.shtm
So now you're in school, payup between $1500-3200 during your 2nd year of school to get a security clearance. graduate from one of those schools, work for DHS for 1-2 years under 'years for services' program. After your time with DHS, you should be ok to find something else.