Education+Sponsorship+payment may lead to a Security Clearance

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  • hexjunkie
    AKA Cuddles
    • Jul 2009
    • 307

    #31
    Re: Educattion+Sponsorship+payment may lead to a Security Clearance

    ________WALL OF TEXT WARNING______________

    There seems to be a good bit of confusion over clearances in here and some very valid information being passed around. I am going to attempt to explain a good portion of what I know based on ... well you get the idea. I have only been on the receiving end, but have worked closely with a good portion of the clearance process.

    For all clearances Honesty is the number one thing that the investigators are looking for.. that pot you smoked in high school, they don't care about it but if you say you have never smoked marijuana and then they talk to a friend who calls you a pot head in high school but you cleaned up your act then you will be denied. There is even a new section on the SF86 form that details accessing a computer network that is not yours.. just be honest.

    The next entry for being granted a clearance is anything in your past that can be used to gain leverage over you, bankruptcy, bad finances, affairs, addictions, of the continued foreign contacts (such as family living in a foreign country) can all be reasons to prevent you from receiving a clearance. Keep in mind that these can be used to prevent you being granted a clearance but they do not necessarily prevent you if they can be explained away in your interview.

    I will go though the different clearance types (all of this is available on Wikipedia so none of this is classified)

    SBU or Confidential: not technically a clearance because all you are accessing is non classified information such as Personally Identifiable Information. This is a minimal background investigation which will do a credit check, criminal background investigation, and verify the validity of the information you provide on your clearance paperwork. This is the lowest on the totem pole when discussing any type of sensitive information.

    Secret Clearance: is a 7 year background investigation that covers everything included in the SBU or confidential clearance and will also include an in depth records search, a background investigation on your immediate family members, foreign contact/travel research, a more in depth analysis of your financial history (to verify you spend what you make and not an exceptional amount more). It will also look into past companies you have worked for, known associates that may have a criminal history, and for any avenue of exploit that can be used on the individual to get them to provide information if pushed.

    The Top Secret Clearance is the highest clearance you can receive in the united states federal government (I do not believe I can go into detail on the investigation so I will not) I will say that it includes the secret clearance plus an additional 3 years (for a total of 10 years) and it goes more in depth.

    I am sure most people have heard of a TS/SCI (aka Top Secret/ Special Compartmentalized Information) or a TS/Life Style full scope Poly or a Yankee White Clearance and any other "special" clearance. These are still only Top Secret Clearances with special considerations or with "endorsement" like you would find on a drivers license. These just allow special access to certain areas but at the end of the day they are still a Top Secret Clearance.

    To answer a question at the beginning of the post. No single person can ask for, be granted, nor pay for a clearance themselves. They must be sponsored by a company that requires special access to information that is protected by the clearance process. Your contract or Government position will clearly state that you are required to have a clearance in place. The contractor or the federal government will then pay for and process the clearance by inputting the appropriate paperwork (every agency has a different process for initiating a clearance and the contractor conforms to the agency they have a contract with to endorse the clearance. Once the paperwork is submitted you are put into a repository/database of clearance individuals and your clearance is maintained by an employer until you either lose the job you require special access to or it will be picked up by a new employer. Once you are granted a clearance you are required to go though periodic review to ensure you are maintaining the lifestyle appropriate with keeping your clearance (foreclosures and other financial troubles, foreign travel and things of this nature will be taken into consideration as well as a refresh of your background investigation to ensure no arrest record and other things of this nature are still in place.)

    I cannot state whether someone would be granted a clearance based on their background because I do not know the full scope of the situations surrounding the incident so please do not PM me asking me if this or that will get by a clearance. My advise is to live as clean as you can, and do not lie on your background paperwork. The number one reason I have seen people denied for clearances were for lying on their paperwork. The number 2 reason is attempting to cover up a criminal history and the number 3 reason is financial hardships.

    The last thing I will say is that a clearance is a lifetime commitment. You are required to keep anything that you learn in a classified environment secret for as long as you live. Period no exceptions. Even if the information is declassified it doesn't mean you can go into detail about how much you know nor can you discuss that you even know the information before it becomes declassified. There are other bits to it but I'll leave it to the ones who have clearances or the ones who get them to find out as they go along.

    _____

    another question posed was whether you can DOS the clearance process and the answer is no.. simply because it is a dynamic process that if there are an over abundance of applicants they can increase the number of adjudicators/investigators and increase the size of the process. Theoretically it can handle as many as the system can throw at it.

    I hope this clears come things up!

    Hexjunkie
    Originally posted by Ellen
    Do I wish we could all be like hexjunkie? Heck yes I do. :) That would rock.

    Comment

    • RTKsbox35
      Member
      • Nov 2009
      • 17

      #32
      Re: Getting started in the security field

      Originally posted by xor
      I for one would like to hear that talk.

      xor
      Second this notion, I have read up on the topic "in theory", but in practice it seems so much less systematic than the government makes it out to be. I say this in regards to the qualifications and automatic disqualifiers. It's not so much that I see isolated obsurdities of the "o well I know a guy who did X and still got this clearance and his friend never did anything and was denied for ..." kind . But more of a system wide lack of cohesivness. I am at the age when many of my friends are beggining to transfer over or look into security sector jobs and are actually going through the process in reality(the graduation age o ya...), DHS being one of the departments that many are applying for. They themselves seem to think that either credible character profilles are absent or that a large degree of randomness is somehow still present.... I certainly had a good laugh when a friend of mine got accepted for a job that he applied for as a joke with a background check we both thought he had less of a chance than Charles Manson.
      OpenBSD for the functional paranoid... Live only kernels for the nonfunctional one

      Comment

      • uomu
        Member
        • Jul 2008
        • 18

        #33
        Re: Educattion+Sponsorship+payment may lead to a Security Clearance

        I've read all that I could find on security clearances on the forums and it seems like several people have mentioned the process can be subjective, depending on the person who looks into you.

        There are a number of people who go to Defcon who like guns (Defcon shoot), and I am wondering if anyone knows whether a CCW permit (Concealed Carry Weapon) could effect getting security clearance. I have no idea why it would, but I'm going to take a CCW course next week and wanted to make sure it wasn't going to mess up my hopeful future security career.

        I figured this didn't warrant a new thread, trying to abide by the rules and all.

        Comment

        • Deviant Ollam
          Semi-Professional Swearer
          • May 2003
          • 3417

          #34
          Re: Educattion+Sponsorship+payment may lead to a Security Clearance

          Originally posted by uomu
          whether a CCW permit could effect getting security clearance.
          i'll preface this by saying that i know very little about the Security Clearance process compared to other people here like Roamer and Shrdlu... but from everything i've ever understood a clearance has to do predominantly with one's freedom from outside influence... that is, a lack of skeletons in your closet (or loved ones in troubling situations) that a third party could lord over you in an attempt to coerce or force you to do their bidding.

          Having and making use of concealed carry permissions is a fully lawful activity and one that shouldn't be a negative reflection upon you or give anyone else cause to blackmail you... provided you comply with all laws. Now, if you have your CCW but you take a lot of liberties (like not disarming when you temporarily enter another state who doesn't recognize your permit or not disarming when inside a school if you're in a state without the permit to carry there) you could have someone discover that you're playing fast and loose with the law... and that would be sticky.

          But if you are following the law, much like a person who has some drinks at a bar (as they are entitled to do) and doesn't take it too far by driving home or something... the Fed shouldn't be looking at you funny during a clearance check.

          The one thing that can happen if you are carrying, of course, is the possibility of a situation arising in which you are obligated to draw and possibly even fire at an assailant should your life or the life of others near you be threatened. Even if you are in the right, this will quite likely result in some time in a court room and lots of legal paperwork after the fact. If you have a charge of manslaughter on your record, even if it is totally dismissed eventually, that might be something you'll want to bring up in your first meeting with Fed people... before they do a background check and come back asking you to explain what happened.
          "I'll admit I had an OiNK account and frequented it quite often… What made OiNK a great place was that it was like the world's greatest record store… iTunes kind of feels like Sam Goody to me. I don't feel cool when I go there. I'm tired of seeing John Mayer's face pop up. I feel like I'm being hustled when I visit there, and I don't think their product is that great. DRM, low bit rate, etc... OiNK it existed because it filled a void of what people want."
          - Trent Reznor

          Comment

          • Chris
            Great Satan of the East
            • Oct 2001
            • 2866

            #35
            Re: Educattion+Sponsorship+payment may lead to a Security Clearance

            Originally posted by uomu
            I've read all that I could find on security clearances on the forums and it seems like several people have mentioned the process can be subjective, depending on the person who looks into you.

            There are a number of people who go to Defcon who like guns (Defcon shoot), and I am wondering if anyone knows whether a CCW permit (Concealed Carry Weapon) could effect getting security clearance. I have no idea why it would, but I'm going to take a CCW course next week and wanted to make sure it wasn't going to mess up my hopeful future security career.

            I figured this didn't warrant a new thread, trying to abide by the rules and all.
            I have never heard of a CCW causing a problem in the clearance process. Like Deviant said, it's legal. While there are some legal activities that can cause problems (for example alcohol abuse) I would be surprised if having a CCW would cause you problems.
            perl -e 'print pack(c5, (41*2), sqrt(7056), (unpack(c,H)-2), oct(115), 10)'

            Comment

            • theprez98
              SpoonfeederExtraordinaire
              • Jan 2005
              • 1507

              #36
              Re: Educattion+Sponsorship+payment may lead to a Security Clearance

              Originally posted by uomu
              I am wondering if anyone knows whether a CCW permit (Concealed Carry Weapon) could effect getting security clearance. I have no idea why it would, but I'm going to take a CCW course next week and wanted to make sure it wasn't going to mess up my hopeful future security career.
              I'll echo both Deviant and Chris's comments and add that I have held concealed weapons permits in Florida, Washington (state), and Pennsylvania; this fact has never even been brought up in any of my interviews or investigations. I know others who are also cleared and have permits; none of them have ever had any issues that I am aware of.

              There is nothing among the adjudication guidelines which would suggest that lawful possession of a firearm (concealed or otherwise) would have anything to do with your future or current potential for a clearance.

              I am confident you can take the class, get your permit, with no issues at all.
              Last edited by theprez98; January 6, 2010, 02:38.
              "\x74\x68\x65\x70\x72\x65\x7a\x39\x38";

              Comment

              • shrdlu
                Registered User
                • Apr 2006
                • 562

                #37
                Re: Educattion+Sponsorship+payment may lead to a Security Clearance

                Originally posted by Chris
                I have never heard of a CCW causing a problem in the clearance process. Like Deviant said, it's legal. While there are some legal activities that can cause problems (for example alcohol abuse) I would be surprised if having a CCW would cause you problems.
                I would be happy to state that any CCW that requires investigation is a positive, rather than a negative. It isn't like a credit check, where too many inquiries are bad, and will negatively affect your credit. Any CCW that I know of requires fingerprinting. It would seem reasonable that it goes off to the FBI (CCW processes are something I have only casual information on). This is yet another proof that you exist as a person (i.e. are not a plant or mole), and that you are law-abiding.

                As others have stated, using a CCW to be a moron would be bad, but then, being a moron in general is bad, especially if I'm nearby, and lacking coffee.

                Comment

                • streaker69
                  • Mar 2008
                  • 1141

                  #38
                  Re: Educattion+Sponsorship+payment may lead to a Security Clearance

                  Originally posted by shrdlu
                  I would be happy to state that any CCW that requires investigation is a positive, rather than a negative. It isn't like a credit check, where too many inquiries are bad, and will negatively affect your credit. Any CCW that I know of requires fingerprinting. It would seem reasonable that it goes off to the FBI (CCW processes are something I have only casual information on). This is yet another proof that you exist as a person (i.e. are not a plant or mole), and that you are law-abiding.

                  As others have stated, using a CCW to be a moron would be bad, but then, being a moron in general is bad, especially if I'm nearby, and lacking coffee.
                  PA does not have a requirement for fingerprinting. Some areas may do it, but it is not in the law that it must be done. Just for informational porpoises.
                  A third party security audit is the IT equivalent of a colonoscopy. It's long, intrusive, very uncomfortable, and when it's done, you'll have seen things you really didn't want to see, and you'll never forget that you've had one.

                  Comment

                  • Deviant Ollam
                    Semi-Professional Swearer
                    • May 2003
                    • 3417

                    #39
                    Re: Educattion+Sponsorship+payment may lead to a Security Clearance

                    Originally posted by theprez98
                    I have held concealed weapons permits in Florida, Washington (state), and Pennsylvania
                    off topic a bit, but i was under the impression that obtaining an out-of-state PA CCW usually happens easily only for folk who have their own home state CCW. and, unless i'm wrong, you're down in the Old Line State (and yet still an Eagles fan, good man!) where citizen CCWs are practically non-existent. Am i missing something there? :-)

                    (BTW... with your Florida permit giving you full carry permission in PA, what does the PA-specific CCW buy you, other than permission to carry on school grounds?)
                    "I'll admit I had an OiNK account and frequented it quite often… What made OiNK a great place was that it was like the world's greatest record store… iTunes kind of feels like Sam Goody to me. I don't feel cool when I go there. I'm tired of seeing John Mayer's face pop up. I feel like I'm being hustled when I visit there, and I don't think their product is that great. DRM, low bit rate, etc... OiNK it existed because it filled a void of what people want."
                    - Trent Reznor

                    Comment

                    • theprez98
                      SpoonfeederExtraordinaire
                      • Jan 2005
                      • 1507

                      #40
                      Re: Educattion+Sponsorship+payment may lead to a Security Clearance

                      Originally posted by Deviant Ollam
                      off topic a bit, but i was under the impression that obtaining an out-of-state PA CCW usually happens easily only for folk who have their own home state CCW. and, unless i'm wrong, you're down in the Old Line State (and yet still an Eagles fan, good man!) where citizen CCWs are practically non-existent. Am i missing something there? :-)

                      (BTW... with your Florida permit giving you full carry permission in PA, what does the PA-specific CCW buy you, other than permission to carry on school grounds?)
                      I am originally from PA and held that permit while I was in college.

                      My Florida and Washington permits were held while I was living in those states while I was in the military.

                      None of them are valid anymore now that I live in Maryland; and yes you are correct, while they technically exist, it's mostly impossible to get one here.

                      Does that clear it up?
                      "\x74\x68\x65\x70\x72\x65\x7a\x39\x38";

                      Comment

                      • Deviant Ollam
                        Semi-Professional Swearer
                        • May 2003
                        • 3417

                        #41
                        Re: Educattion+Sponsorship+payment may lead to a Security Clearance

                        Originally posted by theprez98
                        PA ... while I was in college. Florida and Washington ... while I was living in those states while I was in the military.

                        None of them are valid anymore now that I live in Maryland
                        ah, gotcha. however... when you say they're no longer valid... is that because they have expired? or simply are not honored by MD? (which has zero reciprocity, i believe)

                        because if they're still valid (especially the Florida permit) you still have pretty decent coverage around the states.
                        "I'll admit I had an OiNK account and frequented it quite often… What made OiNK a great place was that it was like the world's greatest record store… iTunes kind of feels like Sam Goody to me. I don't feel cool when I go there. I'm tired of seeing John Mayer's face pop up. I feel like I'm being hustled when I visit there, and I don't think their product is that great. DRM, low bit rate, etc... OiNK it existed because it filled a void of what people want."
                        - Trent Reznor

                        Comment

                        • theprez98
                          SpoonfeederExtraordinaire
                          • Jan 2005
                          • 1507

                          #42
                          Re: Educattion+Sponsorship+payment may lead to a Security Clearance

                          Originally posted by Deviant Ollam
                          ah, gotcha. however... when you say they're no longer valid... is that because they have expired? or simply are not honored by MD? (which has zero reciprocity, i believe)

                          because if they're still valid (especially the Florida permit) you still have pretty decent coverage around the states.
                          They're either expired, or no longer valid since I moved. And you're correct, Maryland has no reciprocity.
                          "\x74\x68\x65\x70\x72\x65\x7a\x39\x38";

                          Comment

                          • xor
                            not
                            • Aug 2007
                            • 1347

                            #43
                            Re: Educattion+Sponsorship+payment may lead to a Security Clearance

                            Why lurking about, I came across this, I forget what I was searching for, most likely free pr0n(just kidding). You can grab it from my site, save yourself the spam, and the registration; promise no bugs . Or if you feel you must, the second link is to the actual site.

                            DoD Security Clearance Handbook 2009. Care of the University of Fairfax

                            http://www.x0red.org/~xor/DoD.Securi...dbook.2008.pdf

                            or

                            http://www.ufairfax.net/ufairfax/ppc/handbook.html

                            xor
                            Just because you can doesn't mean you should. This applies to making babies, hacking, and youtube videos.

                            Comment

                            • theprez98
                              SpoonfeederExtraordinaire
                              • Jan 2005
                              • 1507

                              #44
                              Re: Education+Sponsorship+payment may lead to a Security Clearance

                              Based on the discussions in this thread, I am writing up a CFP to moderate a panel discussion tentatively entitled, "Demystifying Security Clearances." I am seeking 3-4 volunteers to serve on the panel. By default you have been involved in the security clearance process at some point; ideally you may have been involved with investigations or adjudications (at least one person from these fields would be critically important to the success of the panel discussion).

                              Quite obviously, this will be a unclassified discussion, but such insight from insiders could be valuable to the masses. I think the format will be some short opening statements from each of the participants; followed by questions from the audience answered by the panelists.

                              If you are interested, PM me and let me know in what capacity you'd like to participate; and let me know your experience in the process so we can cover all the bases.
                              "\x74\x68\x65\x70\x72\x65\x7a\x39\x38";

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