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  • OpenCTF for Defcon 18? To be run by TubeWarriors

    Is there going to be an OpenCTF at DC18? We're throwing the idea around about getting a team together, but honestly, we're all new to the CTF game. We were hoping we could get in on the ground floor and do OpenCTF to get a feel for how the game is played.

  • #2
    Re: OpenCTF?

    Originally posted by abyssknight View Post
    Is there going to be an OpenCTF at DC18? We're throwing the idea around about getting a team together, but honestly, we're all new to the CTF game. We were hoping we could get in on the ground floor and do OpenCTF to get a feel for how the game is played.
    Seconded. Abyss and I were talking about this at our last DCG meeting.
    "As Arthur C Clarke puts it, "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic". Here is my corollary: "Any sufficiently technical expert is indistinguishable from a witch"."

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    • #3
      Re: OpenCTF?

      I talked to some of the organizers of this from previous years a few months ago, and this was indeed a question. It is up to them as organizers to state their final decision. I will say this: I have no confirmation *yet* that they *will* be running this contest, but that does not mean they won't. If I had confirmation, I would have created a forum for Open CTF.

      Moving this to the forum of "contests/events" as "new ideas" because OpenCTF was not the same contest as CTF.
      Last edited by TheCotMan; March 18, 2010, 17:14.

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      • #4
        Re: OpenCTF?

        I hate too ask this question, because I just might be flamed, but does anyone have good advice for starting with OpenCTF? I know there is a recent forum post asking about CTF advice and I understand the basic concept of CTF, but what sort of stuff do you need to know? What would be the skill level expected to participate and do well? I wandered into the main CTF room at DC16, but it was pretty confusing and I was convinced that the Chinese were going to win anyway.
        "As Arthur C Clarke puts it, "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic". Here is my corollary: "Any sufficiently technical expert is indistinguishable from a witch"."

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        • #5
          Re: OpenCTF?

          I was actually going to post about that when the open CTF forum came up.

          I don't know crap about CTF but I want to. I was going to ask if there was a team willing to bring in a newb, or form a team of newbs to learn together. I'd be down, for sure. This is one of those situations where I'm aware, intellectually, of the types of tools used and the general idea of going about it, but I'd like to actually try it as opposed to just being a book knowledge type (<-- my eternal curse!)

          Mel
          Secretary

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          • #6
            Re: OpenCTF?

            Sounds like we're all in the same boat. g3k has a query out to DC949, so we'll see if they get back to us. I know some of the guys at the familab hackerspace are talking about putting together a training/scrimage night for this sort of thing.

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            • #7
              Re: OpenCTF?

              There's definitely potential to put together a team of noobs. Still enough time to get situated and somewhat organized as a group - we would just need a mentor. Any takers for the mentoring role?

              It could be turned into a nice little project, and learning experience documented the whole way through to post either regularly or at a later date. The team can even try to qualify in June.

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              • #8
                Re: OpenCTF?

                I had been considering mentioning it as an idea for the newbie track on Thursday, but had forgotten about it. I'd be interested in a "scrimmage" or learning time. Or even just jumping in openCTF since we seem to have several people interested.

                My only concern is time. I know that for the competitive CTF they pretty much spend all weekend there, how does the Open CTF work on time? Is it open all day, and to be competitive you need to remain? Or are there restricted hours? Or....and this is really probably the answer...is that still undetermined since currently noone is officially doing open CTF? Yea, I'll wait on those questions til that forum opens and it's announced.

                Since this is my 3rd Defcon, I'll prob have more time available, and am going to try and get involved in something for most of the weekend, rather than gliding around trying to see everything.

                I'm down Valen. Doesn't matter to me if you want to try and create a mixed team of newbs and people who know what they are doing, or just a group of total newbs where we fumble our way through it like our first bra. I'm down either way.

                EDIT: I just went to head over to the Newbie Track forum to make the suggestion there as well, but it doesn't exist. Sad!

                Mel
                Last edited by Melesse; March 19, 2010, 09:43. Reason: Additional Info
                Secretary

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                • #9
                  Re: OpenCTF?

                  scrimmages sound really cool. You could design games to last, say, an hour or less. That way teams don't get mired down, they can "start over" on the next challenge and only be behind by, say, one point.

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                  • #10
                    Re: OpenCTF?

                    Originally posted by Melesse View Post
                    EDIT: I just went to head over to the Newbie Track forum to make the suggestion there as well, but it doesn't exist. Sad!
                    The same thing exists for the "Defcon 101: Introduction to Defcon" that existed last year. A few months ago I talked to 3 of the people that organized this last year, and none of them expressed confirmation that this was going to happen this year, and at least one of the people from last year was not planning on being at Defcon this year.

                    Obviously, the organizers can change their minds, and decide to host contests/events, but I only create forums when I get confirmation from the leaders or organizers.

                    It is possible that there might still be other Thursday events, presentations or learning instead of this, but I've not heard of any with confirmation, and new contests/events require authorization, unlike existing ones.

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                    • #11
                      Re: OpenCTF?

                      oh god my face, i'm not hung over, but I was up till 4 on the dc irc. I tried to stay up to get any information about oCTF that I could, but nobody was posting/twittering like I was :P

                      I'm pulling up Twitter now to find out if DC949 replied to me. Nope no reply. (Why am I narrating my post? Idk)

                      Anyway. God wtf my head. So, we talked about it a little bit at our Dc407 meeting and abyss showed some interest. I've never done a CTF, the most I've ever done in the past is a programming competition, which I finished poorly in. oCTF seems to be a much differet beast than just CTF itself.I dunno if you guys have seen their site, but you should check out http://dc949.org. I've looked at a lot of stuff trying to figure what it is. It seems to be a set of challenges (boxes to hack) mixed in with some stuff like from Lost's mystery game. Bribing is allowed, and encouraged, and certain bribes bring certain bonuses. It's all about thinking outside the box. Apparently one year, one of the
                      servers attacked contestants. It's all game.

                      Anyway, I'd like to get together with some of you fine folks to take what we have in book knowledge and turn it in to practical use. When we find out a bit more about wtf we're going to be doing, we can get together and figure things out.

                      Also, there is no qualifying for oCTF, just gotta sign up.
                      "As Arthur C Clarke puts it, "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic". Here is my corollary: "Any sufficiently technical expert is indistinguishable from a witch"."

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: OpenCTF?

                        Well, as I told valen in pm, I'm game. Heck, this could turn into its own event. Put a couple newbies in a cage; watch them duke it out. Okay, perhaps that was a bit overboard, but the concept is solid. The Intro to CTF talk at DC17 was a great primer, but it still didn't get me onboard. I have to actually do something to learn.

                        Melesse, this will be my second con, and I'm looking to get involved as well. Last year I sat on the sidelines to observe, and now its time for me to venture out into the events etc. If I learned anything at my first defcon, it was that the talks are probably 20% of the value you can get out of the convention. There's far more out there, and I'm not talking about the parties. Which reminds me: don't follow Ichi to anymore exclusive parties that we were randomly invited to...

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: OpenCTF?

                          Originally posted by abyssknight View Post
                          Well, as I told valen in pm, I'm game. Heck, this could turn into its own event. Put a couple newbies in a cage; watch them duke it out. Okay, perhaps that was a bit overboard, but the concept is solid. The Intro to CTF talk at DC17 was a great primer, but it still didn't get me onboard. I have to actually do something to learn.

                          Melesse, this will be my second con, and I'm looking to get involved as well. Last year I sat on the sidelines to observe, and now its time for me to venture out into the events etc. If I learned anything at my first defcon, it was that the talks are probably 20% of the value you can get out of the convention. There's far more out there, and I'm not talking about the parties. Which reminds me: don't follow Ichi to anymore exclusive parties that we were randomly invited to...

                          heh, pretty much in the same boat. this year will be year 2 of defcon. first year I was a fly on the wall. I'm gonna make a #oCTF channell on efnet so we can all talk about it :3
                          "As Arthur C Clarke puts it, "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic". Here is my corollary: "Any sufficiently technical expert is indistinguishable from a witch"."

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: OpenCTF?

                            Originally posted by g3k_ View Post
                            heh, pretty much in the same boat. this year will be year 2 of defcon. first year I was a fly on the wall. I'm gonna make a #oCTF channell on efnet so we can all talk about it :3
                            If you are planning on running an oCTF, you really should get some sort of blessing from the people that ran it last year and confirm they won't actually be running it this year. If you can get both of those, then you will want to talk to Pyr0 about seeing if you can still get space to run it.

                            It is informal, but there is a thought that groups that run contests "own" the contest name from one con to the next, and any attempt to use the same name as their contest without some sort of blessing or agreement can be a source of drama, bruised ego, and hurt feelings. I mention this so you know a cost that might be involved if you choose to make such a decision... It is like stealing a cookie from the cookie jar. I did it. I knew the risk and the punishment, and I did it anyway because the punishment was worth the satisfaction of the cookie, and after being punished, I did it again and kept doing it until the punishment exceeded the reward. :-)

                            (Above paragraph is included for anyone that might want to do the same for any other contest or event. I'm not saying you don't know the above or that you were intending to do any of the items above.)

                            If you are just planning on having new event at Defcon to provide mentoring, peer learning, and prepare for the oCTF event if it happens, you should really call your pre-oCTF event something different. If you plan to have such an event before the contest floor opens and you would like to use Defcon resources (rooms, etc) to meet, then you should contact the person/people in charge of the space you are interested in using to get an OK and assigned space an time. Once you get space assigned to you from a Defcon goon or staff member, please let me know, and I will verify this. Once this is verified, I can create a forum for your event or contest.

                            Consider bribery, gifts, and offers for services to the following people for Defcon space for this if you plan to run a pre-con event:

                            There are a number of rooms set aside for post-presentation Q&A, and you might be able to talk to the Presentation Room Goons to see if they can give you one of their rooms on a Thursday. I'm not sure if Grifter is overseeing the skyboxes, and even if he is, previous year have not had these rooms open too early. You might be able to bribe him somehow and get access to a skybox early on Thursday, though. The B&W Ball room is likely a big "no" because they tend to start setting up early, and once they start, they will want to control access to the room where they are storing all their equipment. Nikita might have rooms to allocate for Thursday but as Friday approaches, available space diminishes, and the bribes you provide have to improve to keep up with demand. Vendor space is almost certainly a no, never, not gonna happen, as vendors set up early enough without causing more problems. The contest floor is almost certainly a no, because previous years included contests and event organizers setting up all day Thursday, and maybe Wed, plus strict access control with limits to who can and can't enter, all arranged before con. You'd have to talk to Pyr0 about this, but that is also, very likely, a big no for a space to use.

                            One more thing... making arrangements with Defcon goons or staff early is much better than waiting too long. Once things get rolling, any last minute requests are likely to be crushed by the juggernaut that is Defcon.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: OpenCTF?

                              "then you will want to talk to Pyr0 about seeing if you can still get space to run it"

                              - email me with any questions at Pyr0 (AT) defcon (DOT) org. (make sure you use a zero in my name)

                              "Consider bribery, gifts, and offers for services . . . . "

                              - This works with me :)

                              -Pyr0

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