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  • Digital copiers

    I didn't know this myself... digital copiers keep a copy of everything they've ever scanned on a hard drive.

    [youtube]iC38D5am7go[/youtube]

    The cost of a "feature" which automatically erases images from the hard drive is $500. Or you can buy an encryption package.

    WTF? Insecure by default much?
    45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B0
    45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B1
    [ redacted ]

  • #2
    Re: Digital copiers

    Originally posted by bascule View Post
    ...
    -youtube-iC38D5am7go-/youtube-
    Hope you realize that markup tag was only for experimentation with access control on embedding video from youtube. It won't last, and your embedding attempt will be be lost when revised away. I added it about 1 week ago, and have been trying to limit access to use it based on usergroups.

    I even state this in the help on this markup:

    Originally posted by youtube-embedding
    Embed YouTube Video
    EXPERIMENTAL: (Please do not use this as it will be removed and posts you make with it will just have a broken bbcode reference.) Embed a youtube video by referencing the value for "v=" in the URL to a video. This is attempted by overloading the IMG tag to see if restriction control for [ youtube ]url-to-image[ /youtube ] will also apply to [ youtube ]youtubevideo[ /youtube ]
    ...
    (Space added to markup examples to disable them.)

    I'll probably disable it this weekend.
    Last edited by TheCotMan; May 7, 2010, 22:38.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Digital copiers

      Indeed. Any copier that has a hard drive uses it... a lot. Generally it's to buffer scanned images in order to collate. I've yet to personally analyze one of these drives, but maybe one day. A fairly recent conversation actually perked up my interest in this very subject. Note to anyone offloading an old copier, common knowledge to this community is as we know not so common to upper management types... a Guttman wipe isn't hard to get your IT staff to do.

      [EDIT] Just in case the embedded video goes away as Cot plans before bascule reads the reply, here's the link.

      Long link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iC38D5am7go&feature=fvst
      Last edited by sintax_error; May 8, 2010, 00:31. Reason: addition
      "You have cubed asscheeks?"... "Do you not?"

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Digital copiers

        Originally posted by TheCotMan View Post
        Hope you realize that markup tag was only for experimentation with access control on embedding video from youtube. It won't last, and your embedding attempt will be be lost when revised away. I added it about 1 week ago, and have been trying to limit access to use it based on usergroups.

        I even state this in the help on this markup:


        (Space added to markup examples to disable them.)

        I'll probably disable it this weekend.
        I just tried it and it worked... and it's pretty awesome. Too bad it's going away.

        Here's the link for after YouTube embedding breaks:

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iC38D5am7go
        45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B0
        45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B1
        [ redacted ]

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Digital copiers

          Originally posted by bascule View Post
          I just tried it and it worked... and it's pretty awesome. Too bad it's going away.

          Here's the link for after YouTube embedding breaks:

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iC38D5am7go
          Beat me to the edit
          "You have cubed asscheeks?"... "Do you not?"

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Digital copiers

            This is a problem with no real good solution. Most companies lease their copiers so pulling the drive and erasing it isn't really an option in those cases. So you'd have to trust the company that you're leasing it from to actually erase the drive, and maybe I'm just a cynical asshole, but I don't trust them to do it.

            We just got a new copier a couple months ago and I hadn't really given much thought to the drive in the old one myself, and I don't think we actually had an erase option on the new one when we got it, but I'll check to see if it is an option and have it implemented if so.

            It's wrong of copier companies to charge extra for a feature that should just be included for their clients safety.
            A third party security audit is the IT equivalent of a colonoscopy. It's long, intrusive, very uncomfortable, and when it's done, you'll have seen things you really didn't want to see, and you'll never forget that you've had one.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Digital copiers

              I'm a bit surprised that this news is a surprise to people on the list. I suppose that the world I came from made me more aware of such things, but certainly not more knowledgeable. When we used to get rid of copiers, the amount of disassembly that was required before it went out the door was such a pain that I cringed everytime someone wanted a new one.

              Box #1: Leftover plastic bits and cables.
              Box #2: Print drum, disk drives, and on and on (and more disassmbly for the disk, OH BOY!).

              When someone finds out that I maintain a landline, they're surprised. I have that phone so that I can hook up my OWN fax machine to it, because to take distributions from my investments requires a fax. The fax has to occur somewhere in the cycle (either my house, or a bank, or *shudder* Kinko's). I prefer that it happy at my house, where the account numbers, and my social security number, don't get stored somewhere.

              Here's another thing you can take away (and dammit, do NOT be surprised at this). When I am through with a printer/fax machine, or in fact ANYTHING that sends a fax, or scans, I DESTROY it. Yep. Fax machines store your data in the process of sending it. Go buy a cheap one and disassemble it.

              Remember, to fax something, it scans, stores, and then it sends.

              I might be paranoid, but I'm not wrong.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Digital copiers

                Originally posted by shrdlu View Post
                I'm a bit surprised that this news is a surprise to people on the list
                What I find more surprising is they quote a survey that says 60% of Americans don't know digital copiers store a copy of everything on a hard drive. That means 40% do?
                45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B0
                45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B1
                [ redacted ]

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Digital copiers

                  Originally posted by bascule View Post
                  What I find more surprising is they quote a survey that says 60% of Americans don't know digital copiers store a copy of everything on a hard drive. That means 40% do?
                  No, it just means some of those 40% just didn't want to admit that they didn't know something.
                  "\x74\x68\x65\x70\x72\x65\x7a\x39\x38";

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Digital copiers

                    The proper way to dispose of any copier or fax machine. DoD certified:

                    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzGWvZAd228

                    Humor aside this presents a legal question, with most of these devices leased, who owns the data on the hard drive?

                    xor
                    Just because you can doesn't mean you should. This applies to making babies, hacking, and youtube videos.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Digital copiers

                      After CBS aired this story a couple of weeks ago, I had two clients contact me about it. The fact that digital copiers store the info was not news to me, but they both expressed extreme surprise and were scared by the very idea. One has asked me to destroy the data on a copier being sent back to the leasing company next week. I've heard secondhand that the lease company said that a program like DBAN should be able to wipe the data. However, my client has to return the copier in 'working condition' and I'm concerned that the copier needs some sort of OS left on the disk. At this point I'm still trying to figure out the exact requirements needed both to wipe the data, and retain any minimum software that the copier needs to operate.
                      Thorn
                      "If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to be a horrible warning." - Catherine Aird

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Digital copiers

                        I guess the easy way would be to order a new hard drive from the copier manufacturer and just replace the drive with the new one. Then send the copier back to the leasing company.

                        xor
                        Just because you can doesn't mean you should. This applies to making babies, hacking, and youtube videos.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Digital copiers

                          Originally posted by xor View Post
                          I guess the easy way would be to order a new hard drive from the copier manufacturer and just replace the drive with the new one. Then send the copier back to the leasing company.

                          xor
                          Unfortunately, just getting to the drive in these copiers can be a daunting task.
                          A third party security audit is the IT equivalent of a colonoscopy. It's long, intrusive, very uncomfortable, and when it's done, you'll have seen things you really didn't want to see, and you'll never forget that you've had one.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Digital copiers

                            Originally posted by xor View Post
                            I guess the easy way would be to order a new hard drive from the copier manufacturer and just replace the drive with the new one. Then send the copier back to the leasing company.

                            xor
                            That, coupled with wiping the original drive, is exactly the business plan of the company mentioned in the CBS report. If you look them up online, they charge about $600 per copier to do just that.

                            Originally posted by streaker69 View Post
                            Unfortunately, just getting to the drive in these copiers can be a daunting task.
                            Right. On some copiers, it can supposedly take over an hour's labor to just to remove the drive.
                            Thorn
                            "If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to be a horrible warning." - Catherine Aird

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Digital copiers

                              Originally posted by streaker69 View Post
                              Unfortunately, just getting to the drive in these copiers can be a daunting task.
                              Yeah, they are not fun machines to take apart. Some that I've worked with have them mounted in an easily accessable area.

                              If I'm not mistaken, I think the large multifunction copiers have their OS embedded into the mainboard.
                              "As Arthur C Clarke puts it, "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic". Here is my corollary: "Any sufficiently technical expert is indistinguishable from a witch"."

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