I think the difference is in our philosophies. Did she approach the situation in a less than ideal way? Yes. Is it enough to totally dismiss her and not allow for a second chance? I'd say no. In general, I find that women are indeed harder on other women, and I guess it's true here as well. Honestly, I think everyone would be better served if perhaps one of the females reached out to her. Maybe it would avoid a future Faye type situation.
And honestly, nothing she did is outside the SE mindset. She geared her post towards her perceived audience and used what assets she had available.
I guess simply dismissing her as a troll is an easy out. It's much easier than someone taking the time to foster a relationship and guide her. Yes, she's a n00b, but she's also an opportunity. Every n00b is an opportunity to create a possible future valued member of our community and not a detractor.
Indeed, I approached this in all the wrong ways. High Wiz you are right and I appreciate your second chance shout out. I have grown up "pretty" per se and concluded that would get me places in life. Not here. Simply I just wanted a chance to let out my true inner self as a "hacker" learn everything I can to become excellent and not just have a pretty face to show. I am sorry if I have offended any of you, that was truly not my intention. I gather for the most part I am not welcome at Defcon, at least not this year. Hopefully I can get someone to teach me the ways (if you know of any resources in the Salt Lake area, let me know. I am having a hard time finding "teachers") Be as weary as you want, hacking makes a person paranoid and I get that. I am not out to make anyone look like a fool (nor could I at this point, obviously my talents in this field are low) Yes, I am new and was hoping for an opportunity to learn. I am indeed fascinated by what all of you can do, and hope to be sharp enough to learn the same. Good luck and have fun!
"You are what you think, having become what you thought" unkown
I gather for the most part I am not welcome at Defcon, at least not this year.
I wouldn't say you're not welcome at all. There are thousands of people who attend DefCon, so even if everyone in this thread didn't want you there, they only make up a lot less than a 1%.
The people here are just skeptical by nature.
So if you're serious, come to DefCon, put yourself out there, be cool, don't front, and you'll probably end up having a really great time.
And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts, And I looked and behold: a pale horse. And his name, that sat on him, was Death. And Hell followed with him.
I think the difference is in our philosophies. Did she approach the situation in a less than ideal way? Yes. Is it enough to totally dismiss her and not allow for a second chance? I'd say no. In general, I find that women are indeed harder on other women, and I guess it's true here as well. Honestly, I think everyone would be better served if perhaps one of the females reached out to her. Maybe it would avoid a future Faye type situation.
And honestly, nothing she did is outside the SE mindset. She geared her post towards her perceived audience and used what assets she had available.
I guess simply dismissing her as a troll is an easy out. It's much easier than someone taking the time to foster a relationship and guide her. Yes, she's a n00b, but she's also an opportunity. Every n00b is an opportunity to create a possible future valued member of our community and not a detractor.
Originally posted by HighWiz
I wouldn't say you're not welcome at all. There are thousands of people who attend DefCon, so even if everyone in this thread didn't want you there, they only make up a lot less than a 1%.
The people here are just skeptical by nature.
So if you're serious, come to DefCon, put yourself out there, be cool, don't front, and you'll probably end up having a really great time.
Thank you for the vote of confidence, I needed that. I am serious and have been looking forward to this for some time. Much appreciated :)
"You are what you think, having become what you thought" unkown
Thank you for the vote of confidence, I needed that. I am serious and have been looking forward to this for some time. Much appreciated :)
I don't really think anyone here intended to make you feel unwelcome, I think most of the posts were more or less curiosity to see if you were real or not. I think if you go to Defcon, you'll find most of the people quite friendly and easy to talk to.
A third party security audit is the IT equivalent of a colonoscopy. It's long, intrusive, very uncomfortable, and when it's done, you'll have seen things you really didn't want to see, and you'll never forget that you've had one.
I wouldn't say you're not welcome at all. There are thousands of people who attend DefCon, so even if everyone in this thread didn't want you there, they only make up a lot less than a 1%.
The people here are just skeptical by nature.
So if you're serious, come to DefCon, put yourself out there, be cool, don't front, and you'll probably end up having a really great time.
HighWiz is indeed correct. The vast majority of peeps that go to Defcon don't post on this forum. Go with an open mind, willing to learn, and you will have a great time.
The secret about Defcon- it's only as good as you make it.
No offense if you are who you say you are, BeautifulHacker, but this whole thing looks like a rerun of Robin Sage http://www.darkreading.com/insiderth...leID=225702468 The scant social networking profiles, the forwardness of your original post, and the last minute plea to go to Defcon seem to parallel some of "Robin's" techniques. Your interest in social engineering makes me think that we are the ones being social engineered. Perhaps a reporter or fed is trying to social engineer her (or his, using a female persona) way into Defcon? Again, sorry if I am wrong, but those are my suspicions.
-AgentDarkApple, the Revolting(NotQuiteA)Hacker
"Why is it drug addicts and computer afficionados are both called users? " - Clifford Stoll
Indeed, I approached this in all the wrong ways. High Wiz you are right and I appreciate your second chance shout out. I have grown up "pretty" per se and concluded that would get me places in life. Not here. Simply I just wanted a chance to let out my true inner self as a "hacker" learn everything I can to become excellent and not just have a pretty face to show. I am sorry if I have offended any of you, that was truly not my intention. I gather for the most part I am not welcome at Defcon, at least not this year. Hopefully I can get someone to teach me the ways (if you know of any resources in the Salt Lake area, let me know. I am having a hard time finding "teachers") Be as weary as you want, hacking makes a person paranoid and I get that. I am not out to make anyone look like a fool (nor could I at this point, obviously my talents in this field are low) Yes, I am new and was hoping for an opportunity to learn. I am indeed fascinated by what all of you can do, and hope to be sharp enough to learn the same. Good luck and have fun!
Waah you guys are mean, I'm not gonna go now? Really? If you want to survive DefCon, and you should go no matter what people here say, you will first need to grow a thicker skin. It is imperative.
Also, stop asking people to teach you. Go and listen and ask and learn, don't go and expect anyone to spoon feed you. The thing people here were jumping on and poking you about was the approach you had. "Look at me, I'm pretty, I'm a model, show me how to hack!" and that never flies in this community.
Everyone is welcome at DefCon. It's a paid convention and more bodies equals more money. If, by some chance, you also happen to be smart and not an asshat, then it is even more fun for you and the community.
As for resources in the Salt Lake City area, they have an active 2600 group. Check this part of the forum.
Good luck! Also, if you wish to reply in person to me, or ask me about anything I mentioned, you can find me at the Scavenger Hunt judging table in the contest room.
Last edited by eris; July 7, 2010, 11:07.
Reason: added a way to find me
"They-Who-Were-Google are no longer alone. Now we are all Google."
Last time I checked, and I know I've said this a million times before, the SEX of a person is irrelevant to them being a hacker.
Your looks mean jack shit to me. You have done nothing, you did not *achieve* a pretty face, you are not hot because you have a hidden talent called being hot. You were just BORN. You did nothing to contribute to that, and I'm not going to celebrate that or encourage that as an asset to your value as a human being on this planet. What should be encouraged is a desire to do something with your brain other than think of ways to value yourself by sex and appearance.
When you tell people you are Hot, Model, Hacker Girl, Cute, etc...you are saying that your worth is special only because of values you yourself had nothing to do with. Your chromosomes are not of your choosing, and therefore you look stupid. Regardless of if you actually have more going on upstairs than you let people believe, but when you behave like the perceived stereotype you think we all want you to be ( Angelina Jolie in the Movie hackers) Then you do yourself a disservice and get flamed to pieces.
There is not a lot out there for you to know otherwise unfortunately. The media, the world itself leads you to believe you need to act a certain way...well fuck them damnit, fuck them hardcore. The first thing you need to do is be yourself, and If you really are a shallow person and want to use looks and sex as your venue, you won't make many real friends at DEF CON, just a few "connections" at con. Mostly sexual interest and they all wont take you seriously, you will be labeled a scene whore. If you wan't to be scene whore you will get the attention the crave no doubt, but you will learn nothing.
I personally invite you to the forum meet. I think you should attend and meet us, I think that it would be nice to have another "one of us" around, and be able to prevent a disaster from happening. No one really wants a genuine person ( and by all accounts, you do seemingly appear to be well intentioned) from becoming exploited, laughed at,taken advantaged of and labeled another "scene whore". That's why you get so much flak on here. There are SO FEW of us ladies in comparison, and every year a few SW's show up and put us back a notch a little, and piss us off royally, because we want to be treated as equals, and since we are outnumbered.....not many people discourage the half naked women throwing their titties around like shurikens.
No offense if you are who you say you are, BeautifulHacker, but this whole thing looks like a rerun of Robin Sage http://www.darkreading.com/insiderth...leID=225702468 The scant social networking profiles, the forwardness of your original post, and the last minute plea to go to Defcon seem to parallel some of "Robin's" techniques. Your interest in social engineering makes me think that we are the ones being social engineered. Perhaps a reporter or fed is trying to social engineer her (or his, using a female persona) way into Defcon? Again, sorry if I am wrong, but those are my suspicions.
-AgentDarkApple, the Revolting(NotQuiteA)Hacker
Hah. Beat me to it. I was just looking for that link since I couldn't find a direct link on the Blackhat site.
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