Defcon 19: [So tell me about the Rio] (recon and intel)

[DaKahuna]

Re: Defcon 19: [So tell me about the Rio] (recon and intel)

Does anyone have any information on receiving or sending packages to guest at the Rio? I have a couple of boxes of items that I would like to FedEx or UPS to the hotel for pickup on Thursday. I saw that they have a setup similar to that at the Riviera, but it looked larger, but can't find any information about it on-line.

Appreciate any information someone may have already gathered.

[minga]

Re: Defcon 19: [So tell me about the Rio] (recon and intel)

[QUOTE=Bbox;119310]I was in Vegas last week for a traditional boring convention so I decided to check out the convention area at the Rio. The First thing you see is a huge video screen displaying the events in the convention area.



Thanks for posting these pictures ... good to see.

[Bbox]

Re: Defcon 19: [So tell me about the Rio] (recon and intel)

I was in Vegas last week for a traditional boring convention so I decided to check out the convention area at the Rio. The First thing you see is a huge video screen displaying the events in the convention area.
(I hope someone protects it from the TV B gones)



The next image is a photo I took looking down one of the hallways. You can see how wide and grandiose it is. The wide hallways should eliminate the congestion problems we experienced at the Riv.



The Rio also seems much larger and much busier in general then the Riv. The gambling areas were jammed packed and even the stores inside were bustling with activity. It looks like we might be interacting with a larger group of people not involved with Defcon.

At the Riv for the most part everyone there was involved with us and understood the importance of securing their laptops and phones. This year the Wall of Sheep may get some very unsuspecting and unaware sheep just by accident.

This new venue looks great, but it will surely offer some very interesting interaction between Con goers and the general public.

The day I was visiting they had multiple events taking place, does anyone know if Defcon will be the only ones using the convention area at the Rio the dates we are there?

[TheCotMan]

Re: Defcon 19: [So tell me about the Rio] (recon and intel)

Thanks for the info TCM and arahel.

Sorry if this wasn't clear, I wasn't looking for why posting illegal stuff is illegal, just wondering what is and isn't legal.

Laws vary from state to state, country to country, but in the U.S., a common "test" with wireless work is:
* Is there expectation for privacy?
* Is the a "conversation" between two parties, where you were not invited to be a part of it?
* Are you using a resource you were not authorized to use?

Privately receiving and logging Access Points "names" MAC addresses and what encryption access points support is likely not going to be considered illegal in many places, but publishing this information with where you found it could lead to legal problems in the civil courts with respect to privacy. The World Wide Wardriving contests/events did this for many years, but google has encountered trouble when trying to make such information publicly available, especially in countries outside the US, like France or Germany:
* http://www.computerworlduk.com/news/...ng-wi-fi-data/
* http://www.macvideo.tv/editing/news/...pe=allchandate

Unless you are the government, in many/?most? places it is illegal for you to "eavesdrop"+record on conversations that you are not a part of. There are exceptions to this. For example, it is legal to "listen" to CB conversations that you are not a member of, because there is no expectation of privacy, and maybe because of the band/frequencies used. (Check with a licensed HAM or someone more familiar with the FCC for how licensed, vs. unlicensed or open/public frequencies can be legally observed. For example, it may be legal to listen to 900 MHz broadcasts (not conversations) but illegal to listen to microwave frequencies licensed (non-public) to service providers.)

Intercepting and recording conversations that you were not invited to participate in would likely be illegal.

Using/Stealing Internet access from a person running a wireless access point would almost certainly be considered a crime, like, "theft of service," even if it is difficult to document and enforce. It might even be possible to prosecute someone under the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act, as it may be possible to effectively argue that an access point is a "computer" -- though I don't know how effective that would be. Google might help you there.

Sorry to be vague, but the laws that cover what is legal or illegal in the realm of recording wireless will be different from state to state and country to country.

[mwerte]

Re: Defcon 19: [So tell me about the Rio] (recon and intel)

Thanks for the info TCM and arahel.

Sorry if this wasn't clear, I wasn't looking for why posting illegal stuff is illegal, just wondering what is and isn't legal.

[Chris]

Re: Defcon 19: [So tell me about the Rio] (recon and intel)

Does anyone know if the rooms at the Rio have mini-fridges? Or is the only fridge part of the mini-bar? Do you think the Rio would be friendly about emptying the mini-bar for the guests to use as a fridge?

The standard rooms have refrigerators (if you believe the interwebs)

[Xeon]

Re: Defcon 19: [So tell me about the Rio] (recon and intel)

Does anyone know if the rooms at the Rio have mini-fridges? Or is the only fridge part of the mini-bar? Do you think the Rio would be friendly about emptying the mini-bar for the guests to use as a fridge?

[treefort]

Re: Defcon 19: [So tell me about the Rio] (recon and intel)

There's a Burger King (that serves beer) inside the Rio.

Oh, excellent. I can get on board with their fries.

[Chris]

Re: Defcon 19: [So tell me about the Rio] (recon and intel)

Man, I'm going to miss the McDonalds being right across the street. $5 goes a long way in that place.

There's a Burger King (that serves beer) inside the Rio.

[treefort]

Re: Defcon 19: [So tell me about the Rio] (recon and intel)

Man, I'm going to miss the McDonalds being right across the street. $5 goes a long way in that place.

[TheCotMan]

Re: Defcon 19: [So tell me about the Rio] (recon and intel)

Yes, I could have done the latter... but didn't think it necessary. And the last thing I want to do is answer to TCM (or Priest) in person this August as to why his disks just got impounded.

Thanks! I do not enjoy banning users, or removing illegal content that puts the forums at risk, so it is really great for me when this all works, and I don't have to do more work; it gives me more time to work on other projects and improvements here. :-)

[arahel_jazz]

Re: Defcon 19: [So tell me about the Rio] (recon and intel)

Legal: You walk in with your 'droid phone or laptop and view the publicly visible Wi-Fi networks. I published a brief summary of this earlier in the thread.

Illegal: You walk in with your rooted 'droid phone or laptop with a special adapter and connect to the networks and capture traffic using TCPdump or Wireshark - then pubish the WPA2 key for network access along with the IP of the servers you might find in the scan.

Yes, I could have done the latter... but didn't think it necessary. And the last thing I want to do is answer to TCM (or Priest) in person this August as to why his disks just got impounded.

To the second part of your question: There isn't much within walking distance of the Rio for cheap food - other than the Palms (food court) and Gold Coast. You can take the Harrah's shuttle back to Harrah's/Paris/Imperial Palace and hit the Hash House A Go-Go or any other of the dozens of decent places on the central strip.

[TheCotMan]

Re: Defcon 19: [So tell me about the Rio] (recon and intel)

Where is the line between legally obtainable and illegally gotten?

Eh. How about this:

If the information "you" post could cause the disks on this server to be yanked by law enforcement with a search warrant, and force me to rebuild the services on new disks, and configure them again, I will not be pleased. I recently spent several days doing this earlier this month when hardware (which was likely the motherboard) failed.

I really don't like the idea of protecting users from themselves. I prefer enlightened self-interest, which is when people do things to protect themselves, like not admitting to crimes on a public forum, and not providing evidence that could be used against them on a public forum. If it was possible for me to say we would not honor search warrants, and I was able to enforce this without personal risk, or loss of disks and time in rebuilding servers or having to appear in court, I'd say, go for it, and post your crimes, and evidence of your crimes all your want. I am not able to say this and enforce it. Additionally this server is not even my hardware, it is Jeff's and his hardware that is at risk. It is possible that he would choose to drop the forums instead of buying replacement disks. (Only he knows how likely this would be.) As a result, we enforce this policy of "nothing illegal" on the forums because of enlightened self-interest; we don't want more work or hassles.

If you all want to use PM for that kind of discussion, it is very likely none of the mods would ever find out about it. The only time I read people's PM, is when they give me permission to do so when they complain to me about things like spam, and then I limit my review of their PM box to just the messages complained about. However, if the courts ever managed to get a copy of the DB, they might find your PM, so I would hope enlightened self-interest would guide forum users to avoid using the forums to discuss anything illegal, and wisdom would encourage them to consider covert channels and encryption if they really felt a need to admit to crimes and provide evidence.

[mwerte]

Re: Defcon 19: [So tell me about the Rio] (recon and intel)

Thanks for your information and any other (legally obtained) information you find while you are there.

Where is the line between legally obtainable and illegally gotten?

Thank you for the info arahel_jazz, what about non hotel eateries around? I'll probably do breakfast in my room, snack throughout the day, and then go out at night, but are there decent and not too expensive places to go out too?

[snideology]

Re: Defcon 19: [So tell me about the Rio] (recon and intel)

NOTE: If you are planning at staying at Gold Coast or Palms - As one guy on AVP told me, crossing Flamingo Blvd is like playing Frogger with your life. No shyte! I almost got run over - even with the walk signal! If you get hit and are drunk - they pin the blame on you.

-----
Now, I dislike to be callous regarding my fellow DC attendees, but as a lover of 1980's-era video games, I cannot help think that that might be VERY entertaining from on high, if it can be seen from the hotel. I do not wish any player any ill will (much suspect I shall attempt it), but, if it HAS to happen, let us hope the player has an extra frog.