[Defcon 19] Who is designing the DEFCON 19 badge?

[LosT]

Re: Who is designing the DEFCON 19 badge?

Yes, and there has only been an electronic badge for the past 5 years....

And there hasn't always been a 'badge contest'.....

And there was ROBOT wars.....

I see your points. But the real jist is why do the same thing, over and over? That's why we changed it up. And like it or hate it, we had WAY more participation, and lots of people thanking us for THEM getting a chance to play THIS year. Grass always greener and all that...

If you want electronics AND puzzles, try the Mystery Challenge. It's coming back for one last time. And it required hardware skills as well as everything else- I'd like to think it's one of the most "well rounded" hacker contests around. (Again, depends on how you define the term ...)

BTW, oCTF is open to everyone, so the point about using a computer and competing, is there as well...

[Ellen]

Re: Who is designing the DEFCON 19 badge?

...but I do hope for the day when a chance to #win@DC returns for folks with my set of skills. Doesn't have to be a badge though.

Not to get off topic, but that was my thought too. There was a hardware hacking contest in the HHV involving kits that sold for $60 each. It wasn't an official event, so there was no on-stage announcement, but there were prizes.

Something similar could easily be done as an official event. However if no one was willing to sponsor it, participants would be required to buy the base "kit" themselves. Would this discourage people from participating?

[FirmWarez]

Re: Who is designing the DEFCON 19 badge?

There was more participation in the badge contest this year than any single event in the past, save possibly Roamer's first War Drive (and then it is a percentage vs numbers argument).

That's not conjecture, it's simply fact.

And I think that's a good thing in some respects. Since everyone has a badge, making badge "hacking" more accessible and requiring interaction are very positive things.

I liked the badge. I thought the puzzles very cool. That said, I've still got some personal grief over it:

1) With regards to "there's always playing around in the HHV". I'm an embedded systems guy. I can play all the time. The uber electronic badge hack contests where the one place at DC that I could use my "leet skilz" to win. Playing in the village is cool, it's not the same thing as Kingpin talking about my team's work on stage at closing. The rest of my team from previous years did not attend this year, and no contest "for them" was a reason. Yes, I know about the HHV contest, great stuff but not the same thing.

2) More accessible: again, very positive. But I'm not sure I agree with the "because everyone gets a badge they should be able to compete" logic. It's a bit blah. I have a sneaky suspicion that everyone at DC has used a computer. Should CTF be more accessible to them?

I understand why. And I think those are good reasons. I don't completely disagree; I think I'm 99% on board, I just wanted to share my 1% disagree points.

That said I appreciate the technical, academic, and artistic skill and effort that went in to the badge concept this year. I've run competitions before, it's a lot of hard work.

This year's badge and contest were great stuff, fantastic job.

...but I do hope for the day when a chance to #win@DC returns for folks with my set of skills. Doesn't have to be a badge though.

[LosT]

Re: Who is designing the DEFCON 19 badge?

There was more participation in the badge contest this year than any single event in the past, save possibly Roamer's first War Drive (and then it is a percentage vs numbers argument).

That's not conjecture, it's simply fact.

[Ellen]

Re: Who is designing the DEFCON 19 badge?

I prefer electronic badges. There -- I said it. WOOOO! That felt good. I've been holding that in for a long time.

I didn't hack the electronic badges and I didn't attempt the puzzles this year. It's just decoration for me -- I'm OK admitting that. I like to collect them. I like to hang them in my office and have people ask about DEF CON. My DC 16-18 badges are always a hit when people stop in. Not sure what they'll think of DC 19 speaker/human badges as nobody has come to office in the last week! :-) HA!

Haha! See? That is how you do it. :) I like electronic badges too, and I have never competed in a badge hacking contest either.

I also think Lost did an amazing job with the contest, and I am excited to see Mystery Challenge back next year. I really hope that all of the new attendees who rocked the contest this year will take a crack at MC. You guys were brilliant!

[Club81]

Re: Who is designing the DEFCON 19 badge?

I prefer electronic badges. There -- I said it. WOOOO! That felt good. I've been holding that in for a long time.

I didn't hack the electronic badges and I didn't attempt the puzzles this year. It's just decoration for me -- I'm OK admitting that. I like to collect them. I like to hang them in my office and have people ask about DEF CON. My DC 16-18 badges are always a hit when people stop in. Not sure what they'll think of DC 19 speaker/human badges as nobody has come to office in the last week! :-) HA!

[Ellen]

Re: Who is designing the DEFCON 19 badge?

The "small percentage" argument is positively laughable because it's true of ANY DC contest. What percentage of attendees participate in CTF? Tamper Proof? Beverage Cooling? If participation is the only goal, the DC badge should be 303's shot glass on a lanyard.

This is not laughable at all. It is absolutely logical. The point was, as everyone else has also said, the badge is handed to every attendee. It makes sense to have an associated contest that the majority of attendees can enjoy. I never said "There should be no hardware hacking contest because too few people participate." Having a hardware hacking contest is AWESOME and I am totally behind it. (Literally. I was behind the table selling kits for part of the con this year.) Additionally, if you would like to trade the piece of titanium around your neck for a plastic shot glass on a string, I will trade with you. Done Deal. ;)

While 1o57's badge was cool and I do believe his goal of getting people to interact more was achieved on some level, I'd hazard that the actual number of people who went beyond looking at the rotunda floor and saying "Hmm, I bet 1o57 has something to do with this..." and truly worked on solving the badge puzzles was comparable to badge hacking numbers of prior years.

From Grand Idea Studio - DC18 write up - "There were 21 official entries in this year’s contest."

Number of new followers to 1o57 badge contest twitter feed over the course of the convention - 270+
Number of people actually tweeting @1o57 about the puzzle - 40+

Sorry, but you are just plain wrong. I hardly went a step without hearing someone talking about some aspect of the puzzle. You probably did too and didn't even realize how many things at the con tied in to the same contest.

Badge hacking is one of the things that made DC unique and I do hope it comes back at some point. Many things could be done to increase participation, starting with the HHV. Most attendees don't pack their DVM, soldering iron or hot air pencil in their carry-on. Having some workstations set up for open use would be great. Less SMT more DIP would also make things more approachable for beginners, as would leveraging a known knowledge base like Arduino.

1. I think the point made by Lost/DT is that electronic badges are NOT unique anymore. (Again, a 5 second google search shows at least 2 other events on the first page advertising a badge hacking contest.)

2. There was a hardware hacking contest. Judged by Lost. In the HHV. Where there were workstations. The kit sold for the contest had an Arduino. There was also a free Propeller class by Jon McPhalen (The "spy" from the badge contest) running Saturday and I believe into Sunday as well. Again in the HHV.

If you prefer an electronic badge, there is nothing wrong with voicing that opinion. Shout it out and let DT know. In the future though, don't come here claiming arguments are "laughable" and then make uninformed arguments of your own. ;) Just say you prefer electronic badges. If enough people say that in a non-trolling way, you may get them back.

[Regedit]

Re: Who is designing the DEFCON 19 badge?

The "small percentage" argument is positively laughable because it's true of ANY DC contest. What percentage of attendees participate in CTF? Tamper Proof? Beverage Cooling? If participation is the only goal, the DC badge should be 303's shot glass on a lanyard.

Badge hacking is one of the things that made DC unique and I do hope it comes back at some point. Many things could be done to increase participation, starting with the HHV. Most attendees don't pack their DVM, soldering iron or hot air pencil in their carry-on. Having some workstations set up for open use would be great. Less SMT more DIP would also make things more approachable for beginners, as would leveraging a known knowledge base like Arduino.

Last year was my first at defcon. While I didn't officially enter my badge in the contest (I bricked it after hours and after getting assistance to unbrick it didn't have time to attack it with my iron) I had loads of fun making a custom image for the display, and playing with the icons and ninja locks and stuff. Do a survey and see how many people didn't play with the buttons, lights, etc. That's how many didn't enjoy the electronic badge.

[TheCotMan]

Re: Who is designing the DEFCON 19 badge?

... Before that there really was no badge contest. ...

Yeah, the closest thing I remember for a badge contest before these was when we had those fluid-filled badges and letters floating inside the fluid. (DC9?) There was a call by DT for the first person to correctly arrange the letters floating in fluid to spell out the intended words, to bring their achievement to the front desk of the AP so someone from the Media could take a picture of it. I don't think any prize was involved, and it wasn't much of a contest, either; it was more of a photo opportunity for the press.

[3d0g]

Re: Who is designing the DEFCON 19 badge?

There is a huge difference. Unlike CTF, Tamper Evident or other contests everyone has the badge. You do realize that of the 19 years of DEF CON only 5 had electronic badges, right? Before that there really was no badge contest. I thought this year's contest was awesome. Unlike with the electronic badges, I had hundreds of attendees walk up to me and talk to get the info from my badges.

Of course we realize that. Doesn't invalidate the fact that badge hacking has its fans. I never claimed un-awesomeness of 1o57's fine work this year; just question the participation argument.

[YenTheFirst]

Re: Who is designing the DEFCON 19 badge?

also, as DT pointed out, having a badge that weighs about as much as the lanyard is a GOOD THING.

also, it has no sharp edges. and is choke-proof. safe for all the newbies

[Chris]

Re: Who is designing the DEFCON 19 badge?

The "small percentage" argument is positively laughable because it's true of ANY DC contest. What percentage of attendees participate in CTF? Tamper Proof? Beverage Cooling? If participation is the only goal, the DC badge should be 303's shot glass on a lanyard.

While 1o57's badge was cool and I do believe his goal of getting people to interact more was achieved on some level, I'd hazard that the actual number of people who went beyond looking at the rotunda floor and saying "Hmm, I bet 1o57 has something to do with this..." and truly worked on solving the badge puzzles was comparable to badge hacking numbers of prior years.

Badge hacking is one of the things that made DC unique and I do hope it comes back at some point. Many things could be done to increase participation, starting with the HHV. Most attendees don't pack their DVM, soldering iron or hot air pencil in their carry-on. Having some workstations set up for open use would be great. Less SMT more DIP would also make things more approachable for beginners, as would leveraging a known knowledge base like Arduino.

There is a huge difference. Unlike CTF, Tamper Evident or other contests everyone has the badge. You do realize that of the 19 years of DEF CON only 5 had electronic badges, right? Before that there really was no badge contest. I thought this year's contest was awesome. Unlike with the electronic badges, I had hundreds of attendees walk up to me and talk to get the info from my badges.

[3d0g]

Re: Who is designing the DEFCON 19 badge?

IMO, it makes logical sense to switch the badge contest to something that more people can participate in. After all, everyone (theoretically) gets a badge. Why give it a contest that only a small percentage of people will try?

The "small percentage" argument is positively laughable because it's true of ANY DC contest. What percentage of attendees participate in CTF? Tamper Proof? Beverage Cooling? If participation is the only goal, the DC badge should be 303's shot glass on a lanyard.

While 1o57's badge was cool and I do believe his goal of getting people to interact more was achieved on some level, I'd hazard that the actual number of people who went beyond looking at the rotunda floor and saying "Hmm, I bet 1o57 has something to do with this..." and truly worked on solving the badge puzzles was comparable to badge hacking numbers of prior years.

Badge hacking is one of the things that made DC unique and I do hope it comes back at some point. Many things could be done to increase participation, starting with the HHV. Most attendees don't pack their DVM, soldering iron or hot air pencil in their carry-on. Having some workstations set up for open use would be great. Less SMT more DIP would also make things more approachable for beginners, as would leveraging a known knowledge base like Arduino.

[sixhands]

Re: Who is designing the DEFCON 19 badge?

the skull is even betta. let's using that for DEF 20!

[ninokahlan]

Re: Who is designing the DEFCON 19 badge?

Gummy badge would solve any blod sugar problems :D