Press/Photos/Video restrictions

[kallahar]

I brought this up last year right after con. Traditionally DEFCON has not been "press friendly" - they had extra restrictions on them that normal attendees didn't. The goal was to help increase the privacy of the attendees. If you were hacking stuff, you didn't want your face showing up on the news for any reason. At that time, personal cameras were rare, so it was easy to enforce.

Nowadays everyone has a video camera, and many people post video online, the expectation of privacy at DEFCON has decreased substantially. Additionally, the line between "attendee+youtube" and "press" is quite blurry.

However, last year I personally was "caught" in the background of a full on news interview happening *in the hallway*. That crosses a line for me. I don't want to be on any news shows for any reason.

I would like the rules to basically be this:
1) Big name news (cnn, nbc, cnet, univision, anything most people can name) have to register as press. No footage of attendees (including crowd shots, hallways, etc). They already have an "interview room" set aside for people who want to be interviewed.
2) Small time bloggers, youtube, flickr, etc (most people) don't have to register, but crowd pans, interviews, etc are discouraged (ie, interviewees need their back to a wall, etc)
3) Constant audio or video recording is outright banned. No "surveillance" or secretive recording.

What does everyone think? We need to pressure DT and Niko ASAP to get this sorted for this years DEFCON.

Kallahar

[nous]

Re: Press/Photos/Video restrictions

I completely agree with this post. I think a poll or something should be added so that everyone who agrees with this and doesn't feel the need to comment can "ditto" it without breaking forum posting rules.

[chs]

Re: Press/Photos/Video restrictions

I've never really had any issues screaming into submission some asshole taking photos/videos when and where he shouldn't be.

[TheCotMan]

Re: Press/Photos/Video restrictions

What does everyone think? [about video recording at Defcon]

I like the old rules, and as you can see by the images that I have posted in pics.defcon.org, I blur the faces of people that did not give me permission before I took a picture, and did not take the picture of people that did not give me permission. I've seen people get very upset when pictures were taken without permission, but that was a long time ago.

Then there was a policy change. (Last year?) that pretty much said, "cameras are okay anywhere at Defcon" though there were disagreements on how much was included with "everywhere at Defcon" such as CTF players, room, and screens.

I don't know why this change came about. It is possible that it was impossible to legally enforce, or would be too costly, or the trouble with enforcing it was worse than not enforcing the policies on pictures. It would be great to hear why, and if the reason is trivial, to see if it can be reversed.

Another example? I took video at the DC shoot. 3 people said they did not want to be on video, and I did my best to avoid them, but they did walk across where I had a tripod-mounted camera filming, so before I can post that video, I need to watch for these 3 people and edit out segments that include their face, or blur their face.

This year, I am planning to bring a video camera and ask a few of the people running contests, events, and things at Defcon about their contest, or event with simple questions, and nothing that should count as a "gotcha" to catch people off-guard. Really, because I think it would be cool to have people that run or have run things talk about the history of these things and what brought them to start them, and why they come to Defcon. Puff piece? Maybe, but with permission BEFORE filming begins.

[astcell]

Re: Press/Photos/Video restrictions

Crowd pans? Uncool. Unless you are 500 feet away and using a wide angle lens and shooting from behind to show crowd size.

Most of the time as you raise a camera to your eye you can gauge from the looks of others if a camera will be fine around them or not. This is fine for regular folks or smalltime bloggers, but I agree, CNN and those guys should have the same rules they have always had.

If you must shoot into a group of people while interviewing, I am sure the press can use a wider aperture so as to blur the background. Then again there is no shortage of people willing to hop in the background of any interview and wave to Mom.

I'll delete images of anyone not wanting their likeness out of their hands. In a typical Defcon I delete 10 images that way. Not the end of my world, and not worth making an enemy over. Then we have the people who flip out and go postal if they so much as see a professional camera, as if we are specifically targeting them and no one else.

I'm no stranger to the receiving end either. I have had pictures and videos shot of me and posted, some made me look good and some not so good. Requests to remove the images went unanswered. Frustrating, but not exactly six o'clock news. Yet.

[HighWiz]

Re: Press/Photos/Video restrictions

I like the old rules

<snip>

Then there was a policy change. (Last year?) that pretty much said, "cameras are okay anywhere at Defcon" though there were disagreements on how much was included with "everywhere at Defcon" such as CTF players, room, and screens.

I don't know why this change came about. It is possible that it was impossible to legally enforce, or would be too costly, or the trouble with enforcing it was worse than not enforcing the policies on pictures. It would be great to hear why, and if the reason is trivial, to see if it can be reversed.

<snip>

I prefer the old rules too. Why it changed... Maybe with the prevalence of everyone having cameras on their persons at all times (phone), they decided it wasn't necessary.

I don't necessarily agree with that at all. If you tell someone not to take photos without permission it makes things easier.

Yea it was changed last year, but I still told everyone at 101 NOT to take pictures without permission (ie: While DefCon Policy say's this, you may want to do this) And I probably will do it again, because it's a good rule to have. The "Policy" may say that pictures can be taken anywhere at anytime. But the actuality of the situation is that people may still get really really pissed at some random person taking their photo.

[Deviant Ollam]

Re: Press/Photos/Video restrictions

i'll add my name to the chorus of voices who liked the old rules. as always, if you wind up in a photo or DC Shoot video of mine accidentally, please just let me know and i'll remove/edit things.

also, when i ask "does anyone here not want to be on camera" when i'm hosting a contest, that means SPEAK UP. if i didn't care what you thought, i would ask in a leading manner like "you don't mind being on camera, do you?"

we really do want to know who wishes to remain out of sight as far as photos and video are concerned. just speak up and it's our pleasure to respect your wishes.

[shrdlu]

Re: Press/Photos/Video restrictions

I would like the rules to basically be this:
1) Big name news (cnn, nbc, cnet, univision, anything most people can name) have to register as press. No footage of attendees (including crowd shots, hallways, etc). They already have an "interview room" set aside for people who want to be interviewed.
2) Small time bloggers, youtube, flickr, etc (most people) don't have to register, but crowd pans, interviews, etc are discouraged (ie, interviewees need their back to a wall, etc)
3) Constant audio or video recording is outright banned. No "surveillance" or secretive recording.

I'd have voted on your poll, but there's no slot for my vote. I don't agree with you, but only because I think it's not restrictive enough. Yes, I recognize that people are going to take my picture without my permission, but I'd still like it to be against the rules. Not just stricter rules for the big names, but for everyone.

As anyone who knows me would recognize, I can become very unpleasant if you point a camera my way and don't pay attention to the fact that I am telling you NOT to take a picture. Yes, yes, I know. I'm often unpleasant for no reason whatsoever. Still, if there's a rule against it, and someone violates the rule, and I hurt them, they'll be less surprised.

Truthfully, I agree with your rules, but think they're too polite, and don't include the all-important addition of:

0) Shrdlu is allowed to break one bone for each still photograph, and to cause moderate internal injury for each video.

I think that's only fair. No jokes about my not being able to hit above the belt due to height, either. I can always stand on a chair.

[Chris]

Re: Press/Photos/Video restrictions

I'd have voted on your poll, but there's no slot for my vote. I don't agree with you, but only because I think it's not restrictive enough. Yes, I recognize that people are going to take my picture without my permission, but I'd still like it to be against the rules. Not just stricter rules for the big names, but for everyone.

As anyone who knows me would recognize, I can become very unpleasant if you point a camera my way and don't pay attention to the fact that I am telling you NOT to take a picture. Yes, yes, I know. I'm often unpleasant for no reason whatsoever. Still, if there's a rule against it, and someone violates the rule, and I hurt them, they'll be less surprised.

Truthfully, I agree with your rules, but think they're too polite, and don't include the all-important addition of:

0) Shrdlu is allowed to break one bone for each still photograph, and to cause moderate internal injury for each video.

I think that's only fair. No jokes about my not being able to hit above the belt due to height, either. I can always stand on a chair.

I am tracking you down and taking your picture this year. COUNT ON IT!

[shrdlu]

Re: Press/Photos/Video restrictions

I am tracking you down and taking your picture this year. COUNT ON IT!

Hah! Sounds like a preemptive strike is called for, then. You better be wearing shin guards. In addition, you are a lot easier to find than I am. Track me down? I'm a master of disguise. I often look just like Cot, for example. I've been told the resemblance is remarkable.

[renderman]

Re: Press/Photos/Video restrictions

Attendees, for their personal amusement, if I happen to be in the background, it's not an issue for me. My beef has always been with the mainstream media.

The major issue is that with the crowds the size they are, it's hard to tell sometimes when they may be setting up a shot or something until it's too late. Other than the press badges, I've always advocated higher visibility for press through the use of bright orange prison issue jumpsuits, this way you can spot them a mile away and avoid them if you so choose (or pelt them with tomato's if that's your thing)

Like Deviant I try and avoid any wide shots and will ask out loud if anyone minds if I take a pic if it is a wider shot. There is no shame in speaking up to protect your privacy, and I cant think of any situations where the photo needing to be taken would trump that.

So speak up dammit!

[Club81]

Re: Press/Photos/Video restrictions

I actually want to be in everyone's pictures. Please come find me. You can attach whatever name you want to my likeness. Render, Deviant, Chris, DT, shrdlu, Wiz, or anybody else you want to claim is in your pic. Game on.

[renderman]

Re: Press/Photos/Video restrictions

I actually want to be in everyone's pictures. Please come find me. You can attach whatever name you want to my likeness. Render, Deviant, Chris, DT, shrdlu, Wiz, or anybody else you want to claim is in your pic. Game on.

Living cardboard stand in, I like this idea.

[DaKahuna]

Re: Press/Photos/Video restrictions

Yes, yes, I know. I'm often unpleasant for no reason whatsoever. Still, if there's a rule against it, and someone violates the rule, and I hurt them, they'll be less surprised.

Frankly the only time I have ever seen you unpleasant has been when:
(1) Someone served you decaffeinated coffee
(2) You have not had you daily quota of caffeine or
(3) Someone let their children under 25 run around unsupervised and they intruded on your space.

Personally, I told one person many years ago not to take my picture. He did anyway and I took the camera from him forcibly and removed the film (shows you how long ago that was).

Someone I don't know wants to take my picture, just ask - I'll agree or disagree depending on my mood.

[The Dark Tangent]

Re: Press/Photos/Video restrictions

Let me see what the current wording we ask the press to comply with, and see if we should make changes. This has been a good discussion.