First Defcon: The Observer's Perspective

[troll]

This year was my first time at Defcon. I've seen a lot of cool things and some things I never thought were possible. The people were mostly anti-social with the exception of a few. The conference was great and I'd like to come back and actually understand most of the jargon the speakers were talking about.

The forum meet was actually a very cool place. For the first time in my life I met people who go to forums. I thought forum users were soulless and faceless and trolls were the heart of the forum. I was wrong. I ended up meeting a lot of cool people that have the same things in common. That's why I used to troll and might continue trolling. I'll post my trolls in a separate thread for pleasure reading if anyone is interested. I won't troll here because Defcon's Fucktard Hall is too epic for me to handle.

The problem with Defcon 19 was that it wasn't long enough. I mostly went to talks and there's no way that I'd be able to see everything in those four days. I came with the expectation to learn more about computer security and how to ethically break into them. I've fulfilled my expectations half way. As a result, I'm currently googling my ass off trying to find out how people do CTF. I feel like that's the best place to start for a complete newbie like me. I love figuring things out and knowing where to start is half the battle.

In these forums I'll try to be as helpful and as honest as possible. If someone needs to RTFM, I'll gladly tell them so. However if someone is genuinely lost and I know an answer, I'll do my best to help.

Thanks for making Defcon a great conference and hopefully people will fix the "badge problem."

It was great meeting you all of you guys and I hope that Defcon 20 AE (Anniversary Edition) will have a lot of those problems solved. Including lengthening the conference.

I'm a bit tired and I'm headed off to bed. I'll make corrections to this post later.

[Bbox]

Re: First Defcon: The Observer's Perspective

Troll,

It was nice meeting you and I am glad to see you actually are posting.

You are correct when you say the Con is not long enough, however no matter how long it is, it would be impossible to take advantage of all the opportunities it offers. It is a very difficult task finding the correct balance of Talks, events, contests and socializing. Many of us find something we love and that becomes the main focus the entire time.

You sound like at your first Defcon you covered a lot of ground and got a good overall feel. Next year consider trying an event that interests you. As far as learning Ethical penetration skills, check out Wallofsheep.com there is a listing of many tools that will help. Also if you have not yet found software you like to use check out backtrack 5. it contains almost all the tools you will ever need and many more than you actually need to start learning. (it's also free).

Next year if you are not sure what you want to do yet, feel free to find me at the Wall of Sheep. Bring your machine, we will give you a place to set up and you can sniff packets for as long as you like. There are always many talented and skilled people there willing to share their knowledge and help you out.

[troll]

Re: First Defcon: The Observer's Perspective

Bbox thanks for your advice. I've used BackTrack since BackTrack 3, but I haven't done any cool things with it except installed ophcrack and ran aircrack-ng through the Konsole. The OS is pretty complicated for me to use... Yes, it took me way too long to not forget startx. I've seen other things programs inside of the OS and it's very organized and it's easy to find tools and utilities, unlike that of the Defcon's Speaker list in the booklet. I hated it how it was categorized by the last name speaker and not the title of the speech :(

What computer should I bring? I just purchased a brand new 27'' iMac with the 2nd gen i7 a couple of months ago. I've seen a guy pentesting with a netbook and he was using the internal wireless card to run attacks on a login form. He found out that their vulnerability was a simple SQL injection. The possibilities are endless and I can't imagine how much more can be done with my computer.

It's great to hear from you Bbox! I'm glad to have met you and I'll definitely check out that site. We're all sheep haha :(

I don't know if I'm making any sense or if I'm being too redundant. I'm posting late again and I'm tired. I have to get used to the 3 hour time difference from the east coast to the west.

[Furby_Hunter]

Re: First Defcon: The Observer's Perspective

I don't see how most people there were anti social, I saw the exact opposite. This was my first DC and I came alone, not really even knowing anyone from my local DC meetup group. I had no trouble getting into conversations as long as I had something to contribute. I answered a number of programming questions on the line to the sports deli, I had a number of good conversations pre/post speech with the people sitting next to me and I at one point had lunch with some random guy who wanted to talk programming. Living in Chicago this is not the norm but I felt comfortable doing it at DC. I didn't make any lasting connections, but I didn't really try to. I found DC to be an extremely social event.

[badkobold]

Re: First Defcon: The Observer's Perspective

I think you get out of DefCon, what you put into DefCon.

Every year I fly out solo- and make new friends, and hang out with old ones. Each year, my DC experience gets better & better.


-BK-

[wreq5]

Re: First Defcon: The Observer's Perspective

It was too my first Con and while I must agree with the anti social of the whole populace in attendance, I did get to meet the best goons in the Con when I had a nasty reaction to the Ghost Pepper Extract (Da Bomb: Final Answer) from the Hot Sauce contest. You might find me on the Rio Security Cameras taking my fall in the Track 3 & 4 Hall. I was also blessed with a new handle HOTSAUCEGUY by many of the people in dispatch (how to change my handle now...hmmmm).
Troll I have to agree with you on the CTF to learn as a newbie and I would like to join you in your quest to figure how they do it because its such an interesting event. Please let me know your findings and lets get together to get something started. Personally, I have downloaded BackTrace 5 to get use to it as I have seen it numerous times around the Con.
Too bad I missed out on the forum meet as I headed out to the CycleOverRide Cycling event on Thursday morning but next year I plan on heading out to the forum meet.
Agreed as well in regards to the length of the CON and balancing out the majority of the talks. I still must admit I got to learn a whole lot coming in as a complete n00b. I hope next year will be a much better experience for me and maybe I can get around getting out of my shell of anti social. Thanks to all I have met, to all who have helped me in my fall, and to those who granted me my new handle.

[acoustica]

Re: First Defcon: The Observer's Perspective

I'm totally guilty of being anti social, but only because I'm a nailed-to-the-floor style of afraid of people. Almost nothing else, just people. I just found that you have to suck it up and if you see someone doing something interesting - ask! Chances are that person will be glad someone else shares a common interest.

[Zorlac]

Re: First Defcon: The Observer's Perspective

Another Defcon noob here, and I found it amazing! It took me most of the first day to get into the swing of things, and being a decidedly "non-social" person (not anti-social, i just dont usually like "social" events), I realised that you only get out of DEFCON what you manage to put in. At the 101, there was a comment about "being outside your comfort zone at least once", and for me, that meant talking to complete strangers about stuff... personally, thats a huge step, and it worked!

Next year (if I get to return), I`ll be more aware of how things work and how to get the best from the event. Also, hopefully, I`ll be fully recovered from my surgery earlier this year, and the underlying issue it addressed... which will mean I wont be passing out from tiredness at 10pm (#FAIL)... nothing worse than hearing the parties you wanted to attend (and seeing the photos the next day), but just unable to even roll out of bed at the time :( This was my biggest disappointment, but really not much I could have done to avoid it this year.

Roll on DC 20!! Its going to be one of the highlights on 2012...

[ButterSnatcher]

Re: First Defcon: The Observer's Perspective

This year was my first year and wont be the last. Great time i had, while i didn't make it to a ton of talks, i was busy meeting great people. Bbox did a great job at the forum meet, with the stickers and making it welcoming to new people. I was actually surprised when some people had said they knew me from the few postings i had made. It was definitely what you made of it, the 30 minute lines for food would have been worse if it wasn't for the random defcon humans i picked up conversations with. Though if you have the opportunity to share you room with a past convention goer i would say go for it(provided you make sure there not crazy murderer) theabcasian aka cobolt i ended up sharing a room with along with funball and on the last night a couple others they introduced me to quiet a few people, making it a great experience all around. From hanging with goons drinking in the hottubs on the first night to the hackerpimps and 303 party on the other nights, it was definitely worth every penny to get to vegas. The only thing i would change for next year is probably to rent a car for the first day to get cheaper food and drinks in the room for the weekend.

[snideology]

Re: First Defcon: The Observer's Perspective

So I thought I might mention something about feeling some sense of anti-social behavior, for whatever it's worth.

Waaaay back when I started going to Def Con (last year), I, too, felt a sense of clickish-ness; perhaps not quite anti-social, but close. This wasn't terribly troubling, since I am so gregarious I quickly met people. By this year - in one year - I could not go two minutes from my room without seeing friends I met last year.

Yet I was actually concerned that I had to blow off so many interesting newcomers this year. I decidedly did not wish to, but Def Con really is about making VERY hard choices, and with terribly limited time, I had to attend my priorities. With such pressing events, I found myself eventually to the point where I basically avoided eye contact. Mind you, I was in a contest that is extremely time-consuming.

So I plead to those of you who felt rebuffed to not give up! For my part, I WILL make more time next year for n00bs, period (to be fair, I took one on my team this year, and he turned out to be a real crackajack!). I encourage every returnee or n00b to find something that interests you there & get involved.

And btw just for the record, another teammate of mine was the producer of the ghost pepper extract, and he feels VERY sorry for those who foolishly assumed it was actually edible, which hopefully teaches everyone at DC to refrain from food & stick to good, 'ol alcohol.

Shout out to everyone who made this year's con so wonderful for me. See you next year!

[hexjunkie]

Re: First Defcon: The Observer's Perspective

Perhaps an adopt a noob situation needs be created?
Noobs registure during DC101, Veterans sign up.... matching algorithm of e-harmony/match.com proportions is run
Announcements done as to who your adopted noob is...
???
profit

[snideology]

Re: First Defcon: The Observer's Perspective

Perhaps an adopt a noob situation needs be created?
Noobs registure during DC101, Veterans sign up.... matching algorithm of e-harmony/match.com proportions is run
Announcements done as to who your adopted noob is...
???
profit

D00D! I LOVE it!

And if no one gets around to doing such, even just a n00b thread or some such, where we can manually adopt a n00b.

This year (so bloody similar to last year, *SIGH*) when I went to pick up my box for the TE contest, I was once again alone, with no word from a single teammate, leaving me once again stuck trying to put together a team from scratch. A n00b was there, waiting to see if someone would take him. Luckily he ended up being perhaps the most consistent worker of all of us, and brought real skills with him.

He could have just as easily been a liability to the team; you take your chances. That is why I really wish there was a way to make all TE teams take a n00b every year, but with it becoming so competitive, that may not be possible

[TheCotMan]

Re: First Defcon: The Observer's Perspective

... That is why I really wish there was a way to make all TE teams take a n00b every year, but with it becoming so competitive, that may not be possible

But then, in Defcon tradition, some, "ringer," will show up and say, "Hi! I am a newbie, and I want to join the MFP!" Get enough ringers, and then some could sabotage other teams. This defeats random selection of Newbies to teams, too.

It is probably not a good idea to force people at Defcon to do anything they don't want to do. The same could be said for score modification based on how many, "newbies," joined a team.

Then again, maybe nobody at defcon would think of exploiting the rules of a game to their advantage. :-D

(By the way, this kind of thing happened a year or two ago at DC101, when Lost offered a big advantage to figuring out the mystery contest to any newbie that won a newbie contest at DC101, which was supposed to be for newbies. Not everyone that played that game was a newbie.)

[snideology]

Re: First Defcon: The Observer's Perspective

But then, in Defcon tradition, some, "ringer," will show up and say, "Hi! I am a newbie, and I want to join the MFP!" Get enough ringers, and then some could sabotage other teams.

Thanks Cot: the one chance we had of scuttling the MF Pros with one newbie teammate, and you blow my cover. Yeah, like they would have gone for it anyway...

Then again, maybe nobody at defcon would think of exploiting the rules of a game to their advantage. :-D

Most certainly not I (said as we swiped two rolls of tamper evident tape from the judges, which REALLY helped our point score)

I wonder if in a truly nefarious way that is my favorite aspect of partaking in hacker contests: since we are doing it to find ways the cheaters & criminals use to circumvent InfoSec, therefore there basically is no way to cheat illegally, if it works. Being rewarded for cheating; it's like college all over again. Well, that, and the binge drinking ;)

[Bbox]

Re: First Defcon: The Observer's Perspective

This year (so bloody similar to last year, *SIGH*) when I went to pick up my box for the TE contest, I was once again alone, with no word from a single teammate, leaving me once again stuck trying to put together a team from scratch.

Just a thought....

I am not sure how High Wiz would view this (maybe a distraction to DC101) but maybe either during the break (if he has one planned for DC20) or directly after, some of the contest organizers could have registration tables at the back of the room where the contests can be explained and newbies or anyone else could sign up for an event.

There were a lot of new events / contests this year and many of them would like more participation. It would bring more value to both the DC101 attendee and the contest itself.

I realize time is at a premium at DC101 but maybe someone (a panel member) or a group of someone's (pyro's contest people (they were all gathered together directly before 101 this year at the mandatory meeting) can quickly run through all the contests and what they are about during their speaking time. I know everything is listed in the program and if people took the time to read the Forums they would know this stuff, but since Defcon can seem overwhelming at first, this "spoon feeding" may be worth the time and effort invested.

PS. If needed to make it easier for Pyro I would volunteer to contact all the contest organizers and find out what events would like to get the word out they are looking for participants and then summarize them to 1 list with a short description of the event.