Defcon 20 Suggestion Essay

[dc0de]

Re: Defcon 20 Suggestions

Personally I can't stand the attitude that a lot of blackhat attendees have (not all of them, obviously) that since they can afford it they're better than the defcon attendees. Let's let blackhat be all the suits, keep defcon for the common man.
Kallahar

I totally agree. I've even been stopped by Blackhat attendees asking, right in front of the rest of the Defcon attendees who have been in line for over an hour, "Where is the BlackHat line for badges?" I direct them to the END of the Defcon line.

[Deviant Ollam]

Re: Defcon 20 Suggestions

1) If they get to pick up their badges at blackhat then it makes them separate from the regular attendees, and the regular attendees who wait in line for hours get pissed off at the elitism.

personally, i'm for anything that reduces the crowd at DC proper. if 500+ people are getting badges off-site, that's 500-odd people who aren't in line at the Rio. (NOTE - This ONLY is fair if there is no running out of the "cool" badges at the Rio. Did that happen last year? I genuinely can't recall)

Don't give them a free ticket or discount, if they can pay $3000 (or whatever) for blackhat, they can pay $160 for defcon.

While i understand your sentiment and agree somewhat, there's a financial distinction often between the attendee and their boss/company. their employer is often paying for Black Hat, while said employer would often not pay for DEFCON outright. this current system allows these folk to essentially "shift" some of the cost of DEFCON on to their bosses and lighten the burden on their own pocket. Many of the Black Hat attendees also extend their hotel reservations for the whole weekend (beyond Black Hat) and go out-of-pocket on that by themselves, too.

I'll admit that if you're attending Black Hat you likely have more financial means at your disposal (even personal funds included) than many DEFCON attendees... but i have never felt that the discount is all that awful a system. The fact that it's a discount now and not an outright free ticket is a better balance.

Don't let them cut in line, just because they can afford blackhat doesn't mean they're special at defcon.

This i 100% agree with and was astonished to see dc0de's stories of people who think their Black Hat badge buys them something at DEFCON. The refrain should be "Welcome to the Rio, now leave your Black Hat badge in your room. kthanxbai."

In general, treating anyone as special or otherwise better than anyone else at DEFCON should be avoided (save for folk who throw free pours of whiskey to people wearing red shirts and radios)

[renderman]

Re: Defcon 20 Suggestion Essay

Post holidays and other general insanity aside, time to chime back in on this.

A few comments from people that I would like to comment on.

First was a comment that I was trying to exclude people from Defcon. Far from it. All are welcome. I mearly think we need to identify the core type of attendee we want to attract and keep and aim to make them happy, rather than trying to be all things to all people, especially when there are other conventions available that may be a better fit.

Another was some comments emailed to me that I said I'd post anonymously to contribute to the discussion.

Hi Render,

Quick idea regarding your public DEFCON suggestion...

"Get rid of the free pass/discount/whatever and you eliminate some of
the 'gawker's' who come
just to look at the funny haired freaks. At the current rate of $150,
if someone cant bother to fork over
that small amount, do we really want them?

This will be an incredibly controversial topic, full of debate. I'm
the first to say we shouldn't exclude
the college student after he graduates and gets a job with an expense
account, but it still comes down to
why he is going. "

I like your idea, to "Get rid of the free pass/discount/whatever", but
for the problem with
poor students why not base the opportunity to discount if they can
show full time enrolment.

Former student. Am looking at attending this year for fun (not
commercial) and got into your post about the essence of DefCon.

When does registration open up?

Another idea after reading your comments:

What about a contribution discount? Turn the "gawkers" into
volunteers. I have no idea, what these tasks would look like but I
could be based on a task which reflects their chosen field of study,
or it could simply be help the Con organizers "take out the trash" --
write grunt code, run errands, help setup, help clean-up, help in some
manner (insert grunt work of choice). Might also give the "community
back to the roots" feel you're looking for and it might teach the
volunteers a thing or two and help them meet people.

Not looking for a discount, but as someone looking to give to the
community. Count me in some grunt work if needed.

-Render

[Bbox]

Re: Defcon 20 Suggestion Essay

A few comments from people that I would like to comment on.

I like your idea, to "Get rid of the free pass/discount/whatever", but
for the problem with poor students why not base the opportunity to discount if they can
show full time enrolment.

Heck with the Student "showing full time enrolment" what about the parents trying to help pay for their kids college education. lol

[TechnoWeenie]

Re: Defcon 20 Suggestions

1) If they get to pick up their badges at blackhat then it makes them separate from the regular attendees, and the regular attendees who wait in line for hours get pissed off at the elitism.

*not at all.. we can clear 4000 attendees thursday at BH... this makes the line at the RIO that much faster, smaller, and efficient.

2) Don't give them a free ticket or discount, if they can pay $3000 (or whatever) for blackhat, they can pay $160 for defcon.

*Not my call, but I have seen this change each year, as the seperation of BH and DC grows.

3) Don't let them cut in line, just because they can afford blackhat doesn't mean they're special at defcon.

*this doesnt happen. The only folks that can cut the line that I allow are as follows:
1) any person with a physical handicap.
2) blackbadge folks. yes, they get the perk.
3) anyone that another senior goons hand walks up to reg. (thats a goon perk)


TW

[Nikita]

Re: Defcon 20 Suggestions

*not at all.. we can clear 4000 attendees thursday at BH... this makes the line at the RIO that much faster, smaller, and efficient.


*Not my call, but I have seen this change each year, as the seperation of BH and DC grows.


*this doesnt happen. The only folks that can cut the line that I allow are as follows:
1) any person with a physical handicap.
2) blackbadge folks. yes, they get the perk.
3) anyone that another senior goons hand walks up to reg. (thats a goon perk)


TW

I just wanted to comment on the assumption that black hat people get anything free. They don't, The price for black hat INCLUDES paying a portion of admission to DEF CON. It may appear like they pay less, but Black Hat has paid DEF CON for those tickets. So we get the money the same, the "discount" is just included in their $1800-$3000 BH admission. Hope that clarifies.

Also, many black hat attendees are paid to attend by their bosses, once DC rolls around they are in cargo shorts beer in hand. I think it's really rude to talk smack about an attendee because he attended a different higher priced conference beforehand.

People bitched for a long time about badges being available at Black Hat because their conference is actually in session when the DC badges go on sale. Would you want to drop a couple k, only to hail a cab across town and stand in line for a few hours missing the con you paid for? I wouldn't. It's bad enough when DC people have to wait in line and there is nothing "official" happening. Plus, it adds to the line, thousands less people in the DC line is that many people NOT crop dusting the corridor in front of you.

I don't see how it's entitlement, Black Hat worked that out for their attendees. If you want to work that out for your peeps maybe you should negotiate a contract to buy badges in bulk, I'm not saying it's impossible, but it's not just willy nilly either.