[Move to DC20 Planning] Badge Request! [for Defcon 20]

[quo]

I think it's time to recognize that Defcon will always sell out of "real badges". As the lucky recipient for the past two years of laminated paper on a string, and with the move to having the badges play a role in a puzzle, can the paper backup badges have some sort of pre-defined role in the game too?

Best case scenario: everyone gets to play, people that receive a paper badge don't feel so much like an oversight

Worst case scenario: you don't sell out of real badges, so the "clue" that is on paper badges doesn't get released. I think you guys wring your hands and start up your evil laughs when thinking of that thought.

[TheCotMan]

Re: [Move to DC20 Planning] Badge Request! [for Defcon 20]

I think it's time to recognize that Defcon will always sell out of "real badges". As the lucky recipient for the past two years of laminated paper on a string, and with the move to having the badges play a role in a puzzle, can the paper backup badges have some sort of pre-defined role in the game too?

Best case scenario: everyone gets to play, people that receive a paper badge don't feel so much like an oversight

Worst case scenario: you don't sell out of real badges, so the "clue" that is on paper badges doesn't get released. I think you guys wring your hands and start up your evil laughs when thinking of that thought.

Altered topic to hopefully act as a reminder to move this thread to the "Defcon 20 Planning forum" when it is open. The items in this thread's topic/subject in square brackets are my changes to the original.

[sintax_error]

Re: [Move to DC20 Planning] Badge Request! [for Defcon 20]

How far of a stretch would it be, and I know this comes up a lot, to order say 1-2K more badges than projected attendance? There's always going to be a use/demand for any surplus units that don't get sold. Not knowing the actual manufacturing cost of the badges for this past year, or having any idea what's in store for DC20, I have no basis to say something to the effect of "it can't cost that much more", however, if everyone who attends DC20 gets a "real" badge, I think it's safe to say that it'd be a win.

[TheCotMan]

Re: [Move to DC20 Planning] Badge Request! [for Defcon 20]

Another solution?

If an insufficient supply of badges are ordered, then provide an option for people to "order" a replacement.

Obviously, it could not be free, as a new cost of shipping and handling (packages to place item for shipping, and time to keep track of what has and has not been shipped.)

First, the time to take a snail-mail address, phone number, and name AT Defcon would slow down the lines too much. Additionally, would would want to do this at Defcon, and who else would want to be responsible for maintaining this information and keeping it secure? This is a non-starter.

Something that *might* work:
* Assume the costs of Shipping and Handling is $5 or $10.
* Print up "order" forms for people to take when they get a paper badge if they want to order a "real" badge.
* People given a paper badge rip a real $5 or $10 bill in half such that each half has a serial number, and provide a half-bill for each paper badge they want replaced to the person they bought a badge from and keep the other half, BUT only allow this option at the time of purchase.
* A PUBLISHED deadline to get replacement badges and need to be less than 8 months, so as to not confuse one Defcon's batch of half-bills with another Defcon's batch of half-biills. Without a deadline, some cache of half-bills would have to be stored and confusion may result.

After Defcon ends, they take their half of the $5 or $10 bill home with an order sheet. They mail all of the following to an address on the form:
* The Form (one per badge) filled out with shipping address to receive a badge
* The half of the $5 or $10 (one per badge to be replaced)
* The paper badge (If each badge has a unique serial number, too, then we have another item for lookup.)

Once this is received at World Domination HQ (or somewhere else), it is then possible to unite one half of a ripped bill with another. (Time would be needed to order half-bills by serial number to make searching faster.)

So long as the bill exchange only happens at paper-badge purchase, the only way to "game" the system is to duplicate the serial number on someone else's bill and how they chose to rip their bill and of course, counterfeit half of a $5 to be used as part of a purchase.

This combines many ideas from several disciplines. It is not super-secure, but seems to me to provide several factors for authentication to make it a usable method that could be implemented without a serious overhead in slowing down the line of people trying to buy badges.

[I do not work badge sales. In my opinion it should be up to the people that organize sales and do the work to decide upon how something like future badge replacement should be implemented. I won't be offended if they say this is a horrible idea, but would appreciate suggestions for better solutions to this problem.]

Any system for future badge replacement should be decided LONG before Defcon, and have the process also described and promoted before Defcon, as people would need to be prepared to request such a badge at the time of purchase.

[One thing I learned from a boss, many years ago... Any time you attend or create a meeting to decide how to do something, bring a proposal for how to implement that thing. It does not need to be perfect; it can be totally flawed. Without *something* to start from, people are not motivated to replace what they see is broken, or improve upon what is almost functional.]

[kallahar]

Re: [Move to DC20 Planning] Badge Request! [for Defcon 20]

FYI the best time to get a real badge is thursday around 5pm. The line in the morning starts at about 4am, the doors open at like 8am, the line is long until the afternoon, but thursday it's open until TEN PM.

Obviously if you show up late (friday night, saturday, sunday) you're unlikely to get a special badge. There are reasons other than "poor planning" that there's never enough badges.

Kallahar

[Club81]

Re: [Move to DC20 Planning] Badge Request! [for Defcon 20]

Standing in line THUR morning is a great time. Get there about an hour early (7AM), have a couple beers while chatting in line, and VOILA! -- you get a badge right away.

Repeat that drill while getting SWAG and you're all set by 11AM or noon on THUR.

[snideology]

Re: [Move to DC20 Planning] Badge Request! [for Defcon 20]

Standing in line THUR morning is a great time. Get there about an hour early (7AM), have a couple beers while chatting in line, and VOILA! -- you get a badge right away.

Repeat that drill while getting SWAG and you're all set by 11AM or noon on THUR.

Neat idea, but it certainly didn't work this year. I attended the shoot, and due to some miscommunications (and crumby cell phone reception), my two sources ended up not getting me a badge, so I wound up in line at about 2pm, there to wait around an hour - only to be told then they had no more badges on hand, but somewhere - SOMEWHERE - there was perhaps another box; possibly at Blachhat; possibly being smuggled into Germany, there to make a new Enigma.

As for having a beer in line... really? 7am, drinking beer... I'll give you this: you are hard-core, man. Ok, admittedly whilst waiting in line, someone brought me some rum punch, but it was getting late by then.

Come to think of it, I ran into many Def Con friends while waiting, so perhaps the wait isn't an issue - but running out of badges that early is, and personally I expect that not to happen again. This is my only real complaint about the planning - but it IS a complaint. Def Con, you can do better than this.

[kallahar]

Re: [Move to DC20 Planning] Badge Request! [for Defcon 20]

I think we could make the badge line go a lot quicker by streamlining the process.
1) Make the price $160 because the odds of people having exact change is much much much much much much much higher.
2) Instead of doing one-on-one cashiers, change to a queue
a) Customer gives cash to TW
b) next worker gives them a badge
c) next worker gives them a lanyard
d) next worker gives them the cd/flyers/etc
e) customer leaves happy and recommends defcon to their friends

Having a sheet with all the SWAG prices and checkboxes for what they want that they could just give to SWAG along with cash would also help that line move a lot faster.

Kallahar

[dc0de]

Re: [Move to DC20 Planning] Badge Request! [for Defcon 20]

As a friend of mine said who attended at DC19, in a hotel, the front desk agents should be able to check in approximately 20 people / hour. Hotel Checkin is far slower than getting a badge at Defcon, so I would guess that 1 person could do 50 people / hour.

If we expect 10,000 people, over 4 hours, that's 2500 people / hour, would require 50 people to perform check in. If Defcon is capable of providing that level of service, there are companies that are more than willing to perform this as a service for a small per person stipend.

Just an idea...

[kallahar]

Re: [Move to DC20 Planning] Badge Request! [for Defcon 20]

I think we can go far far faster, like 10s per attendee. how long does it take to take in money and hand over items?

[zontar]

Black Badge pickup [for Defcon 20]

Quick question re: black badges at DC20. Do we just wait in line and when we get to reg desk present the black badge, or is there a special line where we go? Thx!

[kallahar]

Re: [Move to DC20 Planning] Badge Request! [for Defcon 20]

Go up to the very front and ask the security goon there. He'll either direct you to an alley for the "special line" or he'll walk you up to the special line where TW has to verify you and stuff. Either option ends up with great memories.

Kallahar

[A.Trojan]

Re: [Move to DC20 Planning] Badge Request! [for Defcon 20]

Ok, admittedly whilst waiting in line, someone brought me some rum punch, but it was getting late by then.

Oh yeah that punch was delicious your Welcome.

[TechnoWeenie]

Re: [Move to DC20 Planning] Badge Request! [for Defcon 20]

Go up to the very front and ask the security goon there. He'll either direct you to an alley for the "special line" or he'll walk you up to the special line where TW has to verify you and stuff. Either option ends up with great memories.

Kallahar

correct... if you have a black badge, go to the head of the line. (nice perk) and you will be directed to me.

TW