Federal Judge decides 5th amendment protection does not apply to encrypted HD...

[parsec]

Re: Federal Judge decides 5th amendment protection does not apply to encrypted HD...

Wouldnt they then be allowed to just prosecute on the assumption then there was incriminating evidence?

Not without proof of incriminating evidence. Theoretically, you can't be prosecuted without evidence. Not that this has ever stopped the courts in practice.

I'd like to see someone troll the hell out of the courts by encrypting pictures of flowers and kittens in a TrueCrypt volume, refusing to decrypt it for months on end by pleading the 5th, then finally relenting and decrypting the volume and showing the pics.

[astcell]

Re: Federal Judge decides 5th amendment protection does not apply to encrypted HD...

Wouldnt they then be allowed to just prosecute on the assumption then there was incriminating evidence?

That's the media's job.

[Can't_Code4Crap]

Re: Federal Judge decides 5th amendment protection does not apply to encrypted HD...

My basic philosophy is that if you are tried for a crime you literally shouldn't have to do anything but show up to court. Anything that says I can't sit still like a monk after being accused for a crime and letting LE do their own work is blatant anti 5th horseshit. (I was arrested once and literally got through the whole thing with nary a peep besides the old "name,rank, and serial number" and that's how it should be.)

I don't know much about the law besides what is says in the Constitution/Bill of Rights, but haven't people gotten away with refusing to give up say safe combos and the like? The answer there was that if you didn't give up the goods they would open the safe by other means and if that means property damage than tough titties. Seems fair to me.

EDIT: I just remembered that I did know someone who had a head injury that actually did have "on again/off again" amnesia and never saw a doctor until years after the fact. In his case, not remembering a pass would have been a legit defense and he wouldn't have a damn thing to prove it. What if you actually can't remember? Lifetime contempt of court?

[TheCotMan]

A new article linked from SlashDot on this: URL1 = http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2...al-court-says/

"We find, as the SEC is not seeking business records but Defendants' personal thought processes, Defendants may properly invoke their Fifth Amendment right," US District Judge Mark Kearney of Pennsylvania wrote.

Ages ago, at DEF CON, one of us asked Jennifer Grannick ( https://twitter.com/granick ) about 5th amendment protections on being compelled to provide passphrases to decrypt encrypted data. Several things were discussed. (If you claim you can't remember, you can still be held in contempt of court in hopes you will remember, eventually, but how long you can be detained is limited.) She also proposed another thought on how they might do this, which is mentioned in this same URL1 by someone else:

Orin Kerr, a constitutional scholar and former federal prosecutor, suggested that the "Fifth Amendment issues raised by the content of the passcode could be addressed by having the defendants just enter in their passcodes rather than handing them over to the government."
Kerr added, "Having the defendant enter in his passcode would minimize the Fifth Amendment implications of the compelled compliance, as it would not involve disclosing the potentially incriminating evidence of the passcode itself."

Grannick further predicted that government could provide protection from self-incrimination from any admission of guilt for any crime in the *content of the passphrase*, but not what the passphrase unlocks as another possible attack on the 5th amendment by the government, to compel people to give up passphrases. (If there is no risk of guilt in te passphrase itself, then (an argument is pushed) what 5th amendment protection would be justified if focus is just on the passphrase, and not what it unlocks?)

[astcell]

1. Encrypt your PC with an ever changing RSA key.
2. Fedex the key fob to your stateside address.
3. Travel with your PC to the USA and absolutely no way to login to it.

If your PC is confiscated, you legtimately do not know the key.