Defcon badge line suggestions...

[panadero]

Has anyone ever thought to hand out Defcon badges to Blackhat attendees, when they check-in at Ceasar's for Blackhat? That may reduce some of the lines, but it will mean the badges get released almost a week before con starts...just a thought...

[lanrofls]

Re: Defcon badge line suggestions...

As far as i know they already hand out defcon badge at blackhat on thursday.

[panadero]

Re: Defcon badge line suggestions...

They absolutely do. I'm suggesting instead of a separate line to stand in to get your Defcon badge, while at Blackhat, get your Defcon badge at the same time you get your Blackhat badge and packet...that would alleviate thousands of people not having to stand in a separate line for DC badges (assuming you prepaid for DC when you register for BH)...

[Nikita]

Re: Defcon badge line suggestions...

They absolutely do. I'm suggesting instead of a separate line to stand in to get your Defcon badge, while at Blackhat, get your Defcon badge at the same time you get your Blackhat badge and packet...that would alleviate thousands of people not having to stand in a separate line for DC badges (assuming you prepaid for DC when you register for BH)...

That would mean we release the DEF CON Badge early. Nope. We don't want anyone knowing what the badge is until Thursday. It would also give people an unfair advantage in the Badge Hacking Contest, and extra time to counterfeit ;-P. Mostly, we just don't want to spoil the surprise and have badge leaks. That's why BH line for DC badges is thursday afternoon.

[panadero]

Re: Defcon badge line suggestions...

Yup, that's what I figured :)

[zenl4k1n]

Re: Defcon badge line suggestions...

Just curious, DefCon starts on Thursday morning is that right? Are you able to get badges on Wednesday? I remember a couple years ago when I went I was able to get my badge the afternoon before DefCon started and the line was much more tolerable.

[TheCotMan]

Re: Defcon badge line suggestions...

Just curious, DefCon starts on Thursday morning is that right? Are you able to get badges on Wednesday? I remember a couple years ago when I went I was able to get my badge the afternoon before DefCon started and the line was much more tolerable.

Before there was a Defcon Thursday with Thursday events, people were able to buy badges on Thursday, the day before Defcon. (I think it was around Defcon 17 that some almost official events were added to Thusrdays, but it wasn't quite an official Defcon day. Before then, most if not all events were unofficial on Thursday except badge sales.) This was a really nice advantage to those people that arrived early for unofficial events. As I understand it, the prospects to making badges available for sale on Wednesday still exist. Some have included:
* When Thursday was made an official day, some prep work was moved back to Wednesday, and there are not enough people to work on Wednesday.
* Many people that work at Defcon have historically worked at or attended BlackHat Las Vegas/USA, and they are still working on Wednesday, so can't be at two places at the same time.

It was brought up in this thread and a summary is here:
Q: Why not remove Sunday as an official day to sell badges, and add Wednesday as a day for selling badges?
A: Adding another day to badge sales (Wednesday) would mean asking volunteers to work yet another day, or require getting more volunteers. Additionally, a head of badge sales would likely have to work all days. Even if Sunday was removed as an official badge sale day, someone still needs to staff the sales desk to arrange to return black badges people provided to get their free badge over Defcon weekend. Adding Wednesday as a badge sale day would add another day of work for people.
AA: Additionally, if money is changing hands on Wednesday, then it is very likely that Security Goons would also be required to work, adding yet another day, in addition to Thursday, for Security goons to work.
AAA: Volunteers are awesome, but asking too much from them is a good way to discourage people from volunteering.

Q: Why not hire people to work the jobs that volunteers are unwilling to work?
A: That would increase the costs of con and risk bringing in people that are not as well trusted as the volunteers that have established a good working relationship with known-quantities, and understood levels of reliability.

As an attendee, I would like to be able to buy my badge a day before Defcon, but at someone that sees what the real volunteer goons at Defcon do, I'd rather wait until Thursday.

If you have ideas on how to address some of these problems to make badge sales possible a day before Defcon officially starts, feel free to make suggestions. Most of the ideas on how to improve he forums have come from other members.

[kallahar]

Re: Defcon badge line suggestions...

Negative on wednesdays because those of us working want to enjoy at least part of the con. Reg opens at like 8am thursday (which means we have to be there at like 6am).

Last year the *best* time to get your badge was thursday *night*, basically from 4pm on there was no line and plenty of "real" badges remaining. You don't need a badge to do any of the thursday activities.

Unless you're the type that enjoys the line experience, which I'm sure some people do.

There will also be a strict NO TENTS IN LINE policy this year.

Kallahar

[zenl4k1n]

Re: Defcon badge line suggestions...

Thanks for the clarification Kallahar. So the "real" events and talks won't begin until Friday anyway is that correct?

[HighWiz]

Re: Defcon badge line suggestions...

Thanks for the clarification Kallahar. So the "real" events and talks won't begin until Friday anyway is that correct?

What do you mean by "real" events?

[zenl4k1n]

Re: Defcon badge line suggestions...

I guess I should have rephrased and ask if Friday was the official start of Defcon and the talks and everything begin then? Or do they begin on Thursday morning? If they don't start until Friday, I could wait and fly in on Thursday and get my badge and then be ready for Friday morning for the kick off of the speeches and CTF and everything.

[TheCotMan]

Re: Defcon badge line suggestions...

I guess I should have rephrased and ask if Friday was the official start of Defcon and the talks and everything begin then? Or do they begin on Thursday morning? If they don't start until Friday, I could wait and fly in on Thursday and get my badge and then be ready for Friday morning for the kick off of the speeches and CTF and everything.

Back around Defcon 17, Official events were added to Thursday, which was not an official Defcon Day. The following year of this (whenever it happened) Thursday became an official day of Defcon events. Defcon is officially Thursday through Sunday, inclusive. This allows people getting paid to attend Defcon to show, in print that Defcon starts on Thursday, allowing them to arrive on Wed night, if possible and get paid an extra day.

Historically, the events on Thursday have not required attendees to have a badge because of historical issues with getting badges to the people that sell them on-time, and because of long lines which would prevent people from being able to see Thursday events if they waited in line. It would probably be good to verify this is going to be the case this year, as things can change from one year to the next.

Here is a sample of some events from Thursday *LAST YEAR*:
https://www.defcon.org/html/defcon-1...-schedule.html

In addition to those events, I think some of the villages were open, and there were other unofficial Defcon events like, The Defcon Shoot, and from previous nights, the "Pre-Defcon Party at the Alexis Park. Last year, due to City of Las Vegas failures, the Toxic BBQ did not happen, but it looks like it will happen this year. This is another unofficial event that has historically happened on Thursday evening, but you should check look for announcements from the organizers on when and where it will be this year.

The last time there was a Toxic BBQ, HackBus brought a bus-load of people to the BBQ, literally. :-) Assuming they will be back this year, you might want to check with them about where they will pick-up and see what kinds of policies they have for transport.

This year, there will probably be more happening on Thursday, considering it is the 20th anniversary.

Thursday has both official and unofficial events, but is an official day that is officially part of Defcon.

[kallahar]

Re: Defcon badge line suggestions...

Oh yeah, definitely attend thursday, tons of stuff going on. There just won't be any badge requirements. I get there *tuesday*.

Kallahar

[Nikropht]

Re: Defcon badge line suggestions...

That would mean we release the DEF CON Badge early. Nope. We don't want anyone knowing what the badge is until Thursday. It would also give people an unfair advantage in the Badge Hacking Contest, and extra time to counterfeit ;-P. Mostly, we just don't want to spoil the surprise and have badge leaks. That's why BH line for DC badges is thursday afternoon.

So can you verify there will be a badge hacking contest this year?

-Nik

[Chris]

Re: Defcon badge line suggestions...

So can you verify there will be a badge hacking contest this year?

-Nik

I can verify there will be a badge contest this year...now whether it's an actual contest of just Lost (or other Goons) fucking with you...well...you'll just have to figure that out.