Suggestions for pre-shoot intro and Q/A...

[TheCotMan *****Retired ***** Find all posts View Profile Close TheCotMan]

A suggestion for this year.

As I've said before, I won't be there this year (I'm meeting up with other friends this year) so I won't be at the DC Shoot to act as the "shill" during the introduction and Q/A to ask those safety-related questions like I did last year. Deviant usually covers them all, but please, for the sake of media that might show up "under cover" make sure all the safety rules we know are also said out loud. Some questions:

* Four basic rules for responsible handling of firearms
* What is a "cease fire"? Who can call one? How do they call one?
* What does it mean when the range/field/lanes are "hot"?
* What rules exist about the firing line and travel forward of the firing line when the range/field/lanes are "hot"?
* I want to take pictures. Can I go down range while people are shooting to take pictures of that? I've noticed nobody else has those kinds of pictures.
* When is anyone allowed to travel down range to adjust, set, or fix targets?
* How often will there be Cease Fires called?
* What do you do if your weapon "jambs" ?
* What is a "RSO"?
* How can you identify "RSO"?
* Where is the firing line?
* May I handle and touch my weapon to show it off during a cease fire?


Most of these questions are likely going to be addressed by Deviant Ollam during the introduction, but it is hard for one person to remember all of these and any others. I expect we all know he answers to these questions, but people from the media will assume there is no safety unless it is explicitly discussed, and even then, some will choose to ignore what is discussed. :-/

I have no information on anyone from the media showing up this year, but their interest last year could have been for "recon" to go under cover this year.

If you have more questions that should be asked at the intro, please add them here. As a group "we" should be able to remember to cover all of these items.

Some non-safety related question for media people:
* Is there a way to mark yourself as not wanting to be in any pictures or video taken by anyone from the media? (Last year, this was an 'X' with two strips of tape.)
* Is there a way to mark yourself as being fine with picture or video, but not for the news media? (Last year, this was a single strip of tape as a '/" or '\' and I think meant that pictures for "community" use were fine on websites, but NOT for news media.)

Any other questions you can think of to make sure are publicly stated in the intro?

[FirmWarez Voltage Controlled Osc Find all posts View Profile Close FirmWarez]

Re: Suggestions for pre-shoot intro and Q/A...

Any other questions you can think of to make sure are publicly stated in the intro?

*Can/how can I carry a sidearm off the line?

Some shoots I attend allow locked and loaded carry off the line, some a sidearm with no mag, some not at all. Some of us are used to always having a piece at our side, and a this question needs to be answered for all.

[astcell Human Rights Issuer Find all posts View Profile Close astcell]

Re: Suggestions for pre-shoot intro and Q/A...

*Can/how can I carry a sidearm off the line?

Some shoots I attend allow locked and loaded carry off the line, some a sidearm with no mag, some not at all. Some of us are used to always having a piece at our side, and a this question needs to be answered for all.

If I was running the show I'd say the only firearms worn off the line would be legally concealed firearms. Some folks carry 24/7 or close to it and are well versed in their personal firearm choice. In a perfect world you would never know if anyone was carrying or not. As for open carriers on the range, I'd suggest against it, it is just one more muzzle changing directions and the RSOs have enough to worry about.

But then again I'm not in charge, this is only my feeling about it.

[seeess ........ Find all posts View Profile Close seeess]

Re: Suggestions for pre-shoot intro and Q/A...

I'd like it made clear if I can touch non firearms (ammo/mags) during a cease fire. It is annoying to take the mags/ammo away from the table and sit on the ground or otherwise juggle mags/ammo while trying to load them.

A few times last year RSOs would come and stand by me to watch me, and as a signal to other RSOs so they didnt start screaming at me about touching things on the table near my guns. Other times they let me go to a table without any guns on them (because I was near the canon last year) and load there.

[astcell Human Rights Issuer Find all posts View Profile Close astcell]

Re: Suggestions for pre-shoot intro and Q/A...

Keep your ammo well behind you. When they call a cease fire, grab your mags and go back to the ammo. I think they want to loo down the line and see no one at a table.

[sintax_error DC949 Alchemist Find all posts View Profile Close sintax_error]

Re: Suggestions for pre-shoot intro and Q/A...

I'd like it made clear if I can touch non firearms (ammo/mags) during a cease fire. It is annoying to take the mags/ammo away from the table and sit on the ground or otherwise juggle mags/ammo while trying to load them.

A few times last year RSOs would come and stand by me to watch me, and as a signal to other RSOs so they didnt start screaming at me about touching things on the table near my guns. Other times they let me go to a table without any guns on them (because I was near the canon last year) and load there.

There was talk earlier this year of having a table or 2 set up behind the line for just such use. I can't speak to if it will happen or not, but as a shooter, it's convenient to have such an area as fully loading up can sometimes take a full hot line period. As an RSO such a table would keep (most) people away from the line and firearms trying to reload/grab mags during a cold line. Every body wins, we'll have to clarify when we get there.

[FirmWarez Voltage Controlled Osc Find all posts View Profile Close FirmWarez]

Re: Suggestions for pre-shoot intro and Q/A...

If I was running the show I'd say the only firearms worn off the line would be legally concealed firearms....
But then again I'm not in charge, this is only my feeling about it.

Last year I think it was open carry, no mags. I'm cool with whatever rules Deviant wants to put in play, it just needs to be clarified.

Keep your ammo well behind you. When they call a cease fire, grab your mags and go back to the ammo. I think they want to loo down the line and see no one at a table.

This is the way to do it. Tables behind, load your mags there. No firearms, just mags. The line is for shooting; the "pre-line" for loading.

[astcell Human Rights Issuer Find all posts View Profile Close astcell]

Re: Suggestions for pre-shoot intro and Q/A...

I can see open carry having a place. If you want to take a break and not leave your gun on the line then you have no other option.

[seeess ........ Find all posts View Profile Close seeess]

Re: Suggestions for pre-shoot intro and Q/A...

I know there was lots of talk about wed night camping and carrying but last year I dont think there was any policy on it for thrs. I remember deviant even commenting about a father and her 9ish year old daughter both open carrying (in a positive way). We're on public land, you should be able to carry however you like in my opinion (hopefully in a holster).

I really don't understand gun ranges that prevent carrying of loaded weapons. The community seems to get upset when a private business prevents carrying at their establishment (which they have every right to do), so why should we do the same? Especially on public land. If you're not responsible enough to carry, then you're not responsible enough to be shooting guns in the first place.

[astcell Human Rights Issuer Find all posts View Profile Close astcell]

Re: Suggestions for pre-shoot intro and Q/A...

If you're not responsible enough to carry, then you're not responsible enough to be shooting guns in the first place.

Agreed. But all you need to show up is a few bucks. Last year some folks who wanted to shoot my Serbu did not know one of the gun from another. There is really no way to know everyone;s ability with a firearm.

[FirmWarez Voltage Controlled Osc Find all posts View Profile Close FirmWarez]

Re: Suggestions for pre-shoot intro and Q/A...

I'm pretty sure last year it was "open carry but no mags". In general I favor the "more open the shoot, the more restrictive the carry rules". I'd trust the guys at the invite only subgun matches I've attended with frags on their belts (exaggeration, but you get it), while on the other hand, I went to a very touristy shoot this year, uh, down south, for some famous guy's birthday party...and I was very happy with the restrictive rules there. I think this shoot is somewhere in between.

My experience at the "swamp shoot" changed my opinion on these shoots a little. Typically I feel safer around my "gun friends" carrying loaded weapons than I do around most people with a soldering iron. But the popularity of pop culture gun stuff -- like this southern guy's TV show -- have made guns cool to people who would have never owned them before. At that shoot I was surrounded by people who years ago would've been buying golf clubs or overpriced watches, but the cool thing now is guns. And all the TV show "let's go mini gun a bus and blow it up" stuff doesn't make the situation better. Just my experiences. Half a million ARs were sold last year. How many people who bought those have never handled a gun before and got it because "it looks cool on TV/zombies!"?

This will be only my third dc shoot. I think that Deviant does a hell of a job pulling this off. The fairly open nature of the event to me puts it in the middle of ground of the other shoots I attend. Great people, but some are just not experienced with guns. Personally I would be comfortable with RSO/Security folks with mags in their guns, but if you're not wearing a vest, holstered and empty.

[TheCotMan *****Retired ***** Find all posts View Profile Close TheCotMan]

Re: Suggestions for pre-shoot intro and Q/A...

If the issue is "no handling of firearms during a cease fire" and a side-arm is in view, holstered but not being handled, or concealed and not being handled, is walking around while "carrying" not handling a firearm meeting the desired goal?

The only difference between a concealed, holstered firearm (not being handled) and an open-carry holstered firearm (not being handled) is visibility.

[seeess ........ Find all posts View Profile Close seeess]

Re: Suggestions for pre-shoot intro and Q/A...

I'm on board with with almost everything you mentioned, and I probably didn't explain myself well enough (or clearly think out my stance even). For example during a cease fire, I'd be against someone throwing their AR they were just shooting on their back (loaded) and just walking around.

But if someone has a concealed permit, or even if they don't and they choose to open carry, who am I to say they cant on public land?

I just don't know how we would determine "hey you're unsafe, dont carry" vs "you're cool, go ahead and carry". So in that situation the least common denominator normally wins which is "dont carry". But again I don't know how anyone could regulate that on public land really. I don't know, I don't have any real answers, just rambling.