DEAF CON

[Knollgrass]

Re: DEAF CON

By no means forcing; I'm not out to get flamed. I think you're right though, everything should stay on this thread and if we were to have a video chat we make detailed notes and report it back onto the thread so everyone can see what we talked about. I just know interpreting/coordination is a complex topic and it's good to be able to have a conversation pseudo in person to field peoples questions more efficiently but we can still do that here without leaving the thread. We have plenty of time to write it out.

[Knollgrass]

Re: DEAF CON

I've seen the live subtitles idea thrown out once or twice, and I was wondering, for speaker-and-audience talks:

1) Would real-time subtitles be useful for Deaf/Hard-of-Hearing people? Are interpreters preferable, the same, or worse (in case of lack of technical experience)?

2) What technical issues would there be to making this happen (does a giant LED sign work, can we overlay the subtitles on the slides, etc.).


My thought is, if we provide live-subtitling for the major track talks (and possibly other talks), then

A) there's a good base for video subtitles later, and
B) the harder-to-acquire interpreter resources can be focused on other areas like the Contests and Villages, where there's no video, no planned talk, and people want to communicate back-and-forth conversationally.

You're observations are spot on.

Pros: Once it's captioned you have the transcripts forever =). You can then use them to subtitle any videos you make of the session. Subtitles also benefit people who might have a slight hearing loss but won't admit to it (grandpa). They can also be very useful for getting the exact English terminology if we're worried that the interpreter can't get it. We have to remember too that captioners are people too and they make mistakes and struggle with technical things they aren't familiar with. Say GUI or SQL to an interpreter or CART person who aren't familiar with tech lingo and let the fun ensue.

Cons: We'll not find anyone to volunteer to CART and because they bring their own equipment (the stenographer keyboard/projector, etc) they tend to be a bit more expensive than interpreters. They also can only take English to English text. So we would have to assume that for a Deaf person to make a comment they would have to write it down to be read. Works but not very conversational. And you can't use it in the villages.

It all really depends on how many Deaf people come.

[TheCotMan]

Re: DEAF CON

By no means forcing; I'm not out to get flamed.

Ah, no, sorry. I wasn't implying you or others here were forcing anything. We (forum mods) try to provide a resource that we would use if we were running a contest, event or social gathering and if other people like it, then they use it. We have made a service for Defcon discussion as we would like to use if we were not mods. My comment about forcing people at Defcon to do something was commentary on mods forcing people to organize their contests, event or social gatherings on the forums. This was meant to make you feel comfortable taking your planning wherever you want.

Feel free to plan this wherever you want, but please drop URL to the resources you are using into the forums here so people can find them, and then visit the resources you want people to use. If you want to plan here, that is also good.

I think you're right though, everything should stay on this thread and if we were to have a video chat we make detailed notes and report it back onto the thread so everyone can see what we talked about. I just know interpreting/coordination is a complex topic and it's good to be able to have a conversation pseudo in person to field peoples questions more efficiently but we can still do that here without leaving the thread. We have plenty of time to write it out.

Yes on that. Once a few organizers get together, they will often take the planning off-line to email or other services and discuss things in private. This is very common, sometimes following a cycle of using the forums for general ideas and brainstorming, then taking the ideas offline with planners and discuss what is possible, feasible, and where to best spend the limited resources available. Then the cycle returns back to the public (somewhere: forums, twitter, facebook, google group, etc.) to drop a canary to the public mine and see if the canary returns alive *and* sane. (Sanity test. :-)

Some groups (like the Ninja Networks Parties of past) would plan their party entirely in private and it would be a surprise for most attendees when they showed up. Some are almost entirely planned in public like the Defcon Shoot, with full discussion of ideas, and status posted online, with requests for volunteers and planning available for public comment. If you become an organizer for this, you and the rest will make these decisions.

Have you heard back from arose4beni on helping with organization? Has anyone else contacted arose4beni to help out?

[arose4beni]

Re: DEAF CON

Have you heard back from arose4beni on helping with organization? Has anyone else contacted arose4beni to help out?

Yes I have heard back from a few of the people who are interested in helping out with the planning process. If anyone else wishes to be apart of it, by all means please message me or respond to the thread.

I'm thinking there will be some off-forum planning. I wanna really workout a proposal in the next two weeks and get it submitted to have the most time possible for possible revisions and planning.

[Knollgrass]

Re: DEAF CON

Yes I have heard back from a few of the people who are interested in helping out with the planning process. If anyone else wishes to be apart of it, by all means please message me or respond to the thread.

I'm thinking there will be some off-forum planning. I wanna really workout a proposal in the next two weeks and get it submitted to have the most time possible for possible revisions and planning.

If we could get some feedback from some of you about when you're free to do a Google Hangouts. We'd be able to outline a proposal in short order working together.

I know its short notice but if tomorrow evening 8-9 central time (I'm in Alabama) if people want to hop online I'm totally free. Let me know and I'll give out my email to find me on G+. You guys/ladies can find me at snelgrove2@gmail.com

[Deviant Ollam]

Re: DEAF CON

I am unfamiliar with Google Hangout... it looks rather like Skype meets IRC? :-) I suppose this would work exceedingly well for folk who are communicating via ASL. that's pretty awesome.

I'd like to immediately designate the following people as coordinators with me on this...

Lady Merlin - social media (i'm likely putting her in charge of the Twitter feed)
Knollgrass - professional interpreter coordination
arose4beni - professional interpreter coordination
ewilliam - community liaison to the Deaf Hackers group

... and i'm hopeful that DEFCON allows us to create a sub-forum as an unofficial "event" just because it will make planning specific details a LOT easier if we can break them up into various, specialized threads.

Cot, if that does happen... would this thread be moved into that forum? (with just a placeholder or pointer thread left here for folk who had bookmarked it?)

[TheCotMan]

Re: DEAF CON

I am unfamiliar with Google Hangout... it looks rather like Skype meets IRC? :-) I suppose this would work exceedingly well for folk who are communicating via ASL. that's pretty awesome.

I'd like to immediately designate the following people as coordinators with me on this...

Lady Merlin - social media (i'm likely putting her in charge of the Twitter feed)
Knollgrass - professional interpreter coordination
arose4beni - professional interpreter coordination
ewilliam - community liaison to the Deaf Hackers group

... and i'm hopeful that DEFCON allows us to create a sub-forum as an unofficial "event" just because it will make planning specific details a LOT easier if we can break them up into various, specialized threads.

Politically, since Knollgrass (and/or arose4beni) was/were the first person/people to step up and offer to run this and start the paperwork rolling (after discussions on what was possible beyond your asking if there was interest and others asking how it would work) you'd probably want to talk over with Knollgrass/arose4beni their thoughts of your taking this over. (I have no idea what paperwork has been submitted, and who knollgrass/arose4beni has/have talked to about running this. For all I know, knollgrass/arose4beni would be happy let someone else take over all of the paperwork, getting defcon resources and putting in the time to work on this at Defcon.)

Obviously, this is only advice. I do not control who runs what; I'm only offering advice based on problems that have appeared in the past when someone volunteers to do work and head something that has been stated as a desire by someone else, and then someone else also offers to head the same thing and become a manager of the other person that first volunteered to start the paperwork. Maybe you two have discussed this in private, and this suggestion is irrelevant. :-)

Hopefully you both can find some sort of arrangement and decide who will be the primary manager; it is best to have one person be responsible for ALL communication with Defcon goons on resources and planning, so you don't get two different people asking for conflicting things. It also eliminates doubt on who caused a problem when there is only one person responsible for all such communication. You all can try to have more than one person, but based on observations and history, this would probably be a bad idea.

Heck, you all can ignore my advice, and both apply for the same thing... :-) it does not matter from my point of view: whichever is awarded the right to run their service will be decided by another department. I'll just ask who is running what, and once I know it has been approved by whichever department approved it, I can make a forum. (People like Pyr0, Grifter, Nikita, Dark Tangent (Jeff), Great Scott (entertainment venues), etc. are the ones that make decisions on what can get a forum based on what they approve. The existence of forums follows their decisions.)

Cot, if that does happen... would this thread be moved into that forum? (with just a placeholder or pointer thread left here for folk who had bookmarked it?)

If this becomes an event at Defcon, it will get its own forum for discussion, comments, planning and constructive criticism so people can use it or not. Once there is a forum for this, I can move this thread to that forum, and make it a container of all related content and as a result, easier to find.

Hope this helps, and good luck!
-Cot

[Knollgrass]

Re: DEAF CON

Politically, since Knollgrass was the first person to step up and offer to run this and start the paperwork rolling (after discussions on what was possible beyond your asking if there was interest and others asking how it would work) you'd probably want to talk over with Knollgrass their thoughts of your taking this over. (I have no idea what paperwork has been submitted, and who knollgrass has talked to about running this. For all I know, knollgrass would be happy let someone else take over all of the paperwork, getting defcon resources and putting in the time to work on this at Defcon.)

Thanks for defending my honor lol.

I'm cool with it going either way but I agree with TheCotMan, it's got to be one person. But I do like the idea of people taking up different points on this under the coordination of one person. Since this will be my first DC and I've only lurked for such a short time I don't think I would be the best to lobby the goons for our cause. I'll do it if people want me to but I'll need lots of help.

As for the outline/proposal/whatever-it-is, I'm typing on it now and I'll post the link to it in the thread. It's a google doc so everyone can read/write.

[TheCotMan]

Re: DEAF CON

Thanks for defending my honor lol.

Ah.. not defending anyone's honor; trying to decrease risk for drama.

I'm cool with it going either way

That is a healthy attitude.

but I agree with TheCotMan, it's got to be one person. But I do like the idea of people taking up different points on this under the coordination of one person. Since this will be my first DC and I've only lurked for such a short time I don't think I would be the best to lobby the goons for our cause. I'll do it if people want me to but I'll need lots of help.

If this is your first con, then it would make good sense for better success to get Deviant Ollam to be the single point of contact, and then for you to work closely with him and the others. (He has a lot of experience running things, and starting things, and a recent history of handing things over to other people to run when he realizes he has over-extended himself. He has contributed a great deal of himself because of this over-extension, but it has been a good and healthy sign to see him hand off some of his work, so he can enjoy his con and suggest new ideas like this one.)

As for the outline/proposal/whatever-it-is, I'm typing on it now and I'll post the link to it in the thread. It's a google doc so everyone can read/write.

Very good idea! Whenever you run a meeting, make sure you bring a proposal; even if nobody likes it, it starts the ball rolling and provides ideas for people to improve and build upon or revise. And if they do like it, you have a plan.

Hopefully Deviant and the others will come to an agreement in public or private, and you all can proceed with proposal this project.

Good luck!

[arose4beni]

Re: DEAF CON

Sorry guys. I had every intention to post earlier this evening after States, but I feel asleep at 8.

Knollgrass: Cool! I can't wait to read it! Thanks again for writing it. I'll make sure to take my teacher pen to it for editing, proofreading, etc.

Deviant Ollam: Wouldn't mind either way who is the lead/point of contact. Like Knollgrass, I am also new to the community and it will be my second con this year. Having vets like you and ladymerlin on board is great!

CotMan: No worries Cot! Your input is always welcomed!

Now that I have a 10 day break between winter and spring sports, I will really get cracking on some more planning/research. Also, I think we should have another Google Hangout either this week or next with everyone so we can discuss and plan more specific things out.

The outline from the first hangout is already publicly shared if anyone wants to look at it. I just have one tiny request: if people make any significant changes or edits to any documents, please make sure you highlight which edits or comments are yours. Use a different font, font color, etc (just nothing obnoxious like wingdings in neon yellow at size 97). Minor grammatical changes shouldn't be highlighted.

All right I'm off to bed.

[TheCotMan]

Re: DEAF CON

How are you all doing with this?

The reason to ask, is there was an idea to have "Defcon Poker" and 3 different groups stepped forward at around the same time to host it. All of them were excited, but none of them could agree to work with each other on the same plan, or submit a plan, or the plan became to hard and it went nowhere.

Don't let that happen to you. :-)

March 1, is just a little over 1 week away, and would be a good date for you to submit some sort of plan to DT.


Also, the CFP (Call for Papers) was announced on the main site as going out by the end of this month. (https://www.defcon.org/ "2.3.13 ... The CFP will be opening at the end of the month so start planning your research!") Have any of you considered submitting a talk on ways to integrate support for Deaf people at hacker conferences with a tiny almost non-existent budget?

[Knollgrass]

Re: DEAF CON

Thanks theCotman

I've had to deal with some crazy (no pun intended) mental health interpreting emergencies the last few days. I'll interpret for a PhD one day and then someone who's having a psychotic break the next, so I apologize.

Here is the link to the proposal: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...it?usp=sharing

I'll spend the next couple hours working on it. I've only really started the introduction, so don't judge it as a finished product.

[Knollgrass]

Re: DEAF CON

Thanks theCotman

I've had to deal with some crazy (no pun intended) mental health interpreting emergencies the last few days. I'll interpret for a PhD one day and then someone who's having a psychotic break the next, so I apologize.

Here is the link to the proposal: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...it?usp=sharing

I'll spend the next couple hours working on it. I've only really started the introduction, so don't judge it as a finished product.

Alright everyone! I just finished drafting what I envisioned to be a good proposal draft. If arose4beni would please proofread for me that would be most appreciated. I'd also like to add a single person cost estimate so there's actual numbers in the proposal. That will need to include estimated travel, lodging, badge? and cost for services (if not volunteer).

If the link gives any of you problems let me know.

[arose4beni]

Re: DEAF CON

Alright everyone! I just finished drafting what I envisioned to be a good proposal draft. If arose4beni would please proofread for me that would be most appreciated. I'd also like to add a single person cost estimate so there's actual numbers in the proposal. That will need to include estimated travel, lodging, badge? and cost for services (if not volunteer).

If the link gives any of you problems let me know.

I'm on it. :)

[arose4beni]

Re: DEAF CON

Also, the CFP (Call for Papers) was announced on the main site as going out by the end of this month. (https://www.defcon.org/ "2.3.13 ... The CFP will be opening at the end of the month so start planning your research!") Have any of you considered submitting a talk on ways to integrate support for Deaf people at hacker conferences with a tiny almost non-existent budget?

I'm not sure about anyone else, but I wasn't planning on it. Should we?