Welcome to DEF CON 21! How would you make DEF CON 22 even better?

[Surreal]

Re: Welcome to DEF CON 21! How would you make DEF CON 22 even better?

We do NOT Search anyone to get into a talk. LAst year there were some miscommunications on that, but it was corrected and we did make a point to make sure that our GOONS knew that no, we were not searching bags or harassing people over Penn & Teller's requirements. It was in our contract. You can rest assured going forward, that just like this year, that will not happen in future years. I was rather irate, you'd see some very colorful expletives coming from ME If I was searched by any security just to go see a presentation, so I am on your side there.

Thanks, Nikita. That's good to know for the future. Last year I had to throw out a bottle of water and an apple, ffs. I'll abstain from food & drink during a talk if someone asks, but they can have my bottle of rum when they pry it from my warm, sweaty hand.

I don't even want to look at all the talks I said "fuck it!" to over that misunderstanding...

[Nikita]

Re: Welcome to DEF CON 21! How would you make DEF CON 22 even better?

* An overflow/alternate area with a broadcast of what's going on in Penn & Teller would be appreciated. I won't submit to being searched to get into a talk. How about a live multicast version of DCTV?

We do NOT Search anyone to get into a talk. LAst year there were some miscommunications on that, but it was corrected and we did make a point to make sure that our GOONS knew that no, we were not searching bags or harassing people over Penn & Teller's requirements. It was in our contract. You can rest assured going forward, that just like this year, that will not happen in future years. I was rather irate, you'd see some very colorful expletives coming from ME If I was searched by any security just to go see a presentation, so I am on your side there.

[Surreal]

Re: Welcome to DEF CON 21! How would you make DEF CON 22 even better?

I've been making the pilgrimage since DC8, and 21 was by far the smoothest, best run yet. The subtitles were a great addition. I didn't try to get into Penn & Teller*, but found a seat in every talk I got into. Spacious.. The rooms were spacious!

I've some very minor gripes/observations. First, I was buzzed most of the week, but I didn't see any info about Skytalks, like what/when/where. I check the schedule on the web the night before to select a talk and a backup talk and figure out when to eat. Didn't see info there either.

Second, it took some initiative beyond having cash to stay buzzed. During the day there was, I think, ONE bar, in the chillout lounge? More bars, please! More garbage cans would be good, too. I like to keep on Woodsy Owl's good side and clean up after myself.

* An overflow/alternate area with a broadcast of what's going on in Penn & Teller would be appreciated. I won't submit to being searched to get into a talk. How about a live multicast version of DCTV?

[Surreal]

Re: Welcome to DEF CON 21! How would you make DEF CON 22 even better?

How about wife/spouse events during the day? While I was off in the Vally of Geekdom, as my wife calls it, she was a little lonely and bored at the hotel longing for some one to hang out with. If you have wife/spouse events she could hang out with them and I could enjoy the classes/talks.

also maybe a half price wife pass. I am cheap and didn't want to pay the 180 for her to get in.

Just a thought.

Hey, Mr. Fu! I'd probably be willing to hang out with your lonely wife Thursday, depending on what talks are running

Seriously, tho (as in: "that's a joke, I don't need a beating, thx") Vegas is famous for having many entertainment options available that aren't Defcon.

That said, I sure was thirsty before and during the Goon band's set. It blew goats that the bartenders were standing there, petulantly waiting for the magic moment when they could sell a drink. Was that some freaking union thing, or WTF?

[valkyrie]

Re: Welcome to DEF CON 21! How would you make DEF CON 22 even better?

This.
This.
100% this!

Heartily concur. Thank you both.

Regards,
Valkyrie

__________________________________________________ ______
sapere aude

[Whiteb0rd]

Re: Welcome to DEF CON 21! How would you make DEF CON 22 even better?

My opinion -

Humans wear human badges. Regardless of status. All human badges cost the same.

That is certainly the simplest way to manage it, the way we currently do it, and I don't foresee it changing given the current venue. But I do miss some of the flexibility in this area that the AP used to offer us.



-WB

[blakdayz]

Re: Welcome to DEF CON 21! How would you make DEF CON 22 even better?

When I started coming to the con (DC8) we were still at the Alexis Park. The only areas you needed a badge for were the talks, and other official con events. Pool, bar, hotel lobby, etc., were all open to all, and there was a LOT of activity in those areas, good times had by all who didn't end up getting duct taped to a tree or something.

Additionally, there was a large group of (mostly) guys who had been attending, and continued to attend, for years, who brought their SOs. If the SOs wanted to hang out by the pool, come to parties, etc., it was all good. They typically spent most of their days crawling the strip, shopping and doing the other typical Vegas things.

Bottom line, we don't need to change the con to cater to non hackers. There is plenty to do for those folks, either on the periphery, or in Vegas at large.

I'd suggest you buy your wife a badge and let her experience it, you might be surprised when she finds something that interests her, and the day goes past in an instant.


NOW, on the other hand, I do wish there was a manageable way to have badges for SOs, perhaps sold only in conjunction with a full badge, for the after hour social events. It would make for a logistical nightmare at registration, and (as a redshirt goon) I don't even want to think about the problems it would cause us, but it would be nice to be able to bring your spouse to the social events in the evenings without paying the full freight. Not practical, but nice.



-WB

My opinion -

Humans wear human badges. Regardless of status. All human badges cost the same.


That is all.

[Whiteb0rd]

Re: Welcome to DEF CON 21! How would you make DEF CON 22 even better?

How about wife/spouse events during the day?

When I started coming to the con (DC8) we were still at the Alexis Park. The only areas you needed a badge for were the talks, and other official con events. Pool, bar, hotel lobby, etc., were all open to all, and there was a LOT of activity in those areas, good times had by all who didn't end up getting duct taped to a tree or something.

Additionally, there was a large group of (mostly) guys who had been attending, and continued to attend, for years, who brought their SOs. If the SOs wanted to hang out by the pool, come to parties, etc., it was all good. They typically spent most of their days crawling the strip, shopping and doing the other typical Vegas things.

Bottom line, we don't need to change the con to cater to non hackers. There is plenty to do for those folks, either on the periphery, or in Vegas at large.

I'd suggest you buy your wife a badge and let her experience it, you might be surprised when she finds something that interests her, and the day goes past in an instant.


NOW, on the other hand, I do wish there was a manageable way to have badges for SOs, perhaps sold only in conjunction with a full badge, for the after hour social events. It would make for a logistical nightmare at registration, and (as a redshirt goon) I don't even want to think about the problems it would cause us, but it would be nice to be able to bring your spouse to the social events in the evenings without paying the full freight. Not practical, but nice.



-WB

[Chris]

Re: Welcome to DEF CON 21! How would you make DEF CON 22 even better?

i'll add to the commentary about how i feel that a Wives/Girlfriends event tied to DEFCON is probably a poor idea.

once you start things like this it just plays into the notion that there are distinct "outsiders" who get "dragged to DEFCON" but can't really enjoy themselves there.

there already is a "hopeless outsiders" event for "people who don't get DEFCON" ... it's called the entire rest of the damn city. Las Vegas is America's playground. if your spouse or significant other cannot find something else fun to do in Las Vegas then they are possibly too imbecilic to be with you, a hacker. And they are almost CERTAINLY too lame for it to be a good idea for us to cater to them with a special area or gathering at DEFCON.

phew. i need to step back and take a breath because i'm sounding mean.

what it boils down to for me is this: DEFCON is a hacker convention. we are a community of hackers. suggestions like that one are tantamount to creating a "non-hackers" area at DEFCON.

This.
This.
100% this!

[Deviant Ollam]

Re: Welcome to DEF CON 21! How would you make DEF CON 22 even better?

i'll add to the commentary about how i feel that a Wives/Girlfriends event tied to DEFCON is probably a poor idea.

once you start things like this it just plays into the notion that there are distinct "outsiders" who get "dragged to DEFCON" but can't really enjoy themselves there.

there already is a "hopeless outsiders" event for "people who don't get DEFCON" ... it's called the entire rest of the damn city. Las Vegas is America's playground. if your spouse or significant other cannot find something else fun to do in Las Vegas then they are possibly too imbecilic to be with you, a hacker. And they are almost CERTAINLY too lame for it to be a good idea for us to cater to them with a special area or gathering at DEFCON.

phew. i need to step back and take a breath because i'm sounding mean.

what it boils down to for me is this: DEFCON is a hacker convention. we are a community of hackers. suggestions like that one are tantamount to creating a "non-hackers" area at DEFCON.

[blakdayz]

Re: Welcome to DEF CON 21! How would you make DEF CON 22 even better?

I am a wife who wasn't sure I could find anything to do (or understand) at Defcon. We took the chance and bought me a pass anyway, and I found a ton of stuff to do/see/people to talk to and who are willing to help me learn about the things that do interest me. That was a couple of years ago and now I am the one planning our trips to Vegas every summer.

I guess what I'm getting at is you never know if you don't try it out. I bet your wife could find plenty to do if only she (and you) shell out the money and give it a chance. If she doesn't like it at least you gave it a shot and $180 isn't really that much in the long run especially in Las Vegas.

I bring my wife every year. She is not a geek, or technical and she has a blast [she hangs out in the contest area]. I can say that we don't have 'wife' discounts at the moment. My superiors would have to comment on any future prices.

[Pwncess]

Re: Welcome to DEF CON 21! How would you make DEF CON 22 even better?

How about wife/spouse events during the day? While I was off in the Vally of Geekdom, as my wife calls it, she was a little lonely and bored at the hotel longing for some one to hang out with. If you have wife/spouse events she could hang out with them and I could enjoy the classes/talks.

also maybe a half price wife pass. I am cheap and didn't want to pay the 180 for her to get in.

Just a thought.

I am a wife who wasn't sure I could find anything to do (or understand) at Defcon. We took the chance and bought me a pass anyway, and I found a ton of stuff to do/see/people to talk to and who are willing to help me learn about the things that do interest me. That was a couple of years ago and now I am the one planning our trips to Vegas every summer.

I guess what I'm getting at is you never know if you don't try it out. I bet your wife could find plenty to do if only she (and you) shell out the money and give it a chance. If she doesn't like it at least you gave it a shot and $180 isn't really that much in the long run especially in Las Vegas.

[TheCotMan]

Re: Welcome to DEF CON 21! How would you make DEF CON 22 even better?

How about wife/spouse events during the day? While I was off in the Vally of Geekdom, as my wife calls it, she was a little lonely and bored at the hotel longing for some one to hang out with. If you have wife/spouse events she could hang out with them and I could enjoy the classes/talks.

also maybe a half price wife pass. I am cheap and didn't want to pay the 180 for her to get in.

Just a thought.

This has been discussed on one form or another in the past...
* Reduced price for kids
* Reduced price for first-timers
* Reduced Price for "wives" (spouse)
* Reduced price for [some group]

Most counter arguments go like this:

"Then everyone will claim to be a [some group] and want the reduced price."

And for the suggestion of "Reduced price for wives" that has been suggested (a long time ago) and was considered to be a bit problematic:
1) Implies the "wives" are the non-hacker, non-techies, and that will stir up all kinds of ire among many people on the forums (We have at least one Goon who is a woman, and more technically inclined than her husband, and she roped her husband into attending with her. Now he is a goon, too.)
2) Implies that gay, married men have "wives" or would not be entitled to such a suggestion.

No, I am not assuming that these above two complications were items that were part of your suggestion. [To be explicit: you mentioned wives/spouses.] What I am saying is the above counter-arguments are things which have come up to counter the suggestion of reduced prices for [some group].

Even with marriage, if you consider polygamy and combine with homosexual and heterosexual people, then you could have one person show up with 30 friends, and claim they are all married, and the other 30 deserve the reduced price.

If you have ideas on how to address these counter arguments, I am happy to read them. :-)

(For everyone else, no need to cry sexism and and take us off into a tangent discussion unrelated to this. I'm not saying you can't, but it would make it easier for me if we didn't. If you find you really must comment on items of sexism, or failure to address concerns for homosexual males, you can still reply, but I will probably cut thier post and your replies into a new thread for you to do battle, and to keep this one on-track.)

Thanks!

[Kungfu Redneck]

Re: Welcome to DEF CON 21! How would you make DEF CON 22 even better?

How about wife/spouse events during the day? While I was off in the Vally of Geekdom, as my wife calls it, she was a little lonely and bored at the hotel longing for some one to hang out with. If you have wife/spouse events she could hang out with them and I could enjoy the classes/talks.

also maybe a half price wife pass. I am cheap and didn't want to pay the 180 for her to get in.

Just a thought.

[Whiskey]

Re: Welcome to DEF CON 21! How would you make DEF CON 22 even better?

Keep in mind that a lot of Goons, Contest organizers, and Village organizers are generally volunteering at other cons, such as BSides and Blackhat, or enjoying those cons like a normal participant. Those that are holding down the fort on Thursday, like contests in the afternoon, vendor set up, etc... are strung tight as it is. Opening for a FULL day of all activities on Thursday is difficult to do. In order to have a full day of events on Thursday, would probably mean set up on Wednesday afternoon, ummm...probably not gonna happen. Let's not forget also, that most people have already been in Vegas since probably Tuesday, and even 3 full days at DEF CON is LONNNGGGG. Adding that full extra day on Thursday makes it LONNGGERRRRR...

I get that. It just feels spread out on Thursday with DC 101 happening at 10 a.m. and the scattered talks in the afternoon.

I'll fill out the music survey when I've had some time to assemble some realistic suggestions. Thanks for the info.