getting ammo and gear out to Vegas for the Shoot

[Deviant Ollam]

A recent email conversation with a buddy led to me considering something that any number of folk have to face when planning for the DEFCON Shoot... getting ammo out to Nevada.

Many folk fly to DEFCON. Flying, a passenger can have up to 11lbs of ammo. That's a fair amount if you're just traveling with a personal defense firearm, but not quite enough if you're attending the DEFCON Shoot. ;-)

Buying ammo in Vegas can be more expensive than options you might have available at your own local areas, or even impossible if you want to use ammo that you own but which is no longer found in stores.

So what to do? Well, you could ship to the hotel and pay whatever fees the Rio has. Also, I do not know how the Rio handles all of their logistics with regard to hazardous or dangerous packages like ammo/explosives.

There is another possible plan, and i'll start a discussion about it here...

Every summer, we rent a storage unit for one month in Vegas, leading up to Black Hat and DEFCON. We use the storage depot as a destination address for LOTS of drop-shipped items. We have a unique, heavy-duty padlock on the unit and the storage depot owners (a nice mom and pop business) hold one key. UPS and FedEx shows up, get let in, and unload boxes right off the truck in to the roll-top garage door.

Then, when we finally arrive out in Vegas, we can hit the storage unit at any hour of the day in whatever vehicles we need and get everything. It works REALLY well.

I'm tentatively willing to say that if you are coming to the DEFCON Shoot, I will make this kind of shipping situation available to you, too. That is, if you prepare a box of ammo or other gear and ship it to our destination storage unit, I'll do my best to get that shit out to the Shoot Site on Weds/Thurs.

Now, there are some caveats and parameters for this...

1. no firearms. while technically it is legal to ship a firearm to yourself, even across state lines, the liabilities involved with this are something i'd care to not have to handle... especially as far as costs are concerned. Firearms are high-value. let's stick with just ammo and camping gear only.

2. proper packaging! PLEASE for the sake of all that is good and holy use double-walled heavy duty cardboard boxes (with all the contents inside in OTHER boxes to distribute stress and load) and assume that the boxes will get SERIOUSLY punished and stacked, crushed, etc. I AM NOT RESPONSIBLE IF YOU PACK YOUR STUFF LIKE A JACK WAGON. frankly, slapping a label on a Pelican case or something may be the best plan you could have.

3. this is shipping TO vegas only. you get it out there, i'll get it to the Shoot Site. beyond that, it's your responsibility. you police it all up, you pack the rest home (or sell it or make sure you shoot it, etc)

4. claiming the box at the Shoot Site will involve you showing ID with a name that matches the recipient name referenced on the shipping label. i'll clarify this in very specific terms when people make arrangements with me. essentially, you'll be shipping a box from your home town to...

Your Name
c/o Deviant Ollam
123 Storage Road
Storage Company
Las Vegas, NV 10101

... and when you're at the shoot site, someone better have legal, valid ID saying "Your Name" on it. Or make other arrangements with me well beforehand.

5. if you don't claim your box at the DC Shoot either weds or thurs you may either forefit its contents or have to pay to have the box shipped back to the origin address by a shipping means of my choosing.


I think that what i will ultimately require is for folk to download this form... http://deviating.net/firearms/defcon...pping_form.pdf ...and print it out (double-sided). Then, fold it in half so that the large "DC Shoot" text is facing outward. Tape this form on to the outside of the top of your box, right next to the shipping label.

That way, when moving things around the storage unit garage i can clearly see what's what and there's a paper record of your having filled out and acknowledged all the requirements, and its attached to the box (but in a way that no one else can see the details)

Thoughts?

[Deviant Ollam]

Re: getting ammo and gear out to Vegas for the Shoot

if this concept works well and folk wind up wanting to do this, we can talk more about it here. ultimately, however, i will post if there's a go-head for this and give you instructions for emailing shoot@deviating.net to arrange for packages to be handled.

this will not have a cost associated with it this year, but if it gets really popular, i predict that it may cost something in the future (if i wind up renting an SUV in vegas as opposed to just a car in the future)

[astcell]

Re: getting ammo and gear out to Vegas for the Shoot

A few years ago seesss bought ammo and sent it to my house here in CA and I drove it up to the shoot for him. Shipping out of your home state can sometimes save you sales tax too. I'm happy to haul ammo for folks.

[seeess]

Re: getting ammo and gear out to Vegas for the Shoot

Yeah the first year I shipped ammo to the hotel direct from the online store where I ordered ammo. I was hoping I'd save money by avoiding shipping it myself since I usually order all my ammo online in the first place.

But the hotel fees for receiving packages can be costly, and I think it was based on weight so I ended up paying $30-40 for 1k rounds of 9mm if I remember right.

The year after astcell helped me out since we were splitting a lane anyway, and I gave him a few boxes of 3" magnum slugs for his effort. Last year one of my friends was living in vegas so I just shipped it right to his place.

But the storage locker concept sounds like a perfect idea for a larger number of people to take advantage of.

I'll have a car and can probably help you out if you receive too many packages. I can give you cash / bitcoin as collateral until it arrives at the shoot, if you have to give me higher value items. But I'm only showing up for the thrs shoot and the earliest I can pick things up is wed night which may be a problem for you.

[Nipner]

Re: getting ammo and gear out to Vegas for the Shoot

Noob (to the Shoot) question here. I live in Hawaii, so getting my guns/ammo safely there and back is a logistical nightmare with my flights and ammo limits. I'm hoping to buy a new .30-06 online and pick it up before the Shoot. What are the laws and casino rules with carrying one of these through the hotel?

I'm assuming if I pick up some different caliber ammo, folks are willing to share their guns a bit?

Also, beware about shipping things to the Rio. Last year they misplaced one of my packages for 3 days after UPS delivered it there, and still insisted on charging me their receiving fee.

[Deviant Ollam]

Re: getting ammo and gear out to Vegas for the Shoot

I live in Hawaii

really? where are you in the Aloha state? i'll be out there in about a week or so for ShakaCon, then some shooting afterward in the Koko Head pit range. while i don't know how much ammo etc i could carry back with me for you or anything, it'd be cool to meet up if you like.

What are the laws and casino rules with carrying one of these through the hotel?

as long as your not conceal carrying (loaded and such) i do not think you're violating any laws. long as things are cased, locked up, and unloaded you should be fine. we always are.

i've heard tales of security stopping folk during check-in and asking about guns and on rare occasions requesting that security hold on to them (in locked cases, of course) and i can understand their position. never heard of anyone being denied their hotel stay, etc.

I'm assuming if I pick up some different caliber ammo, folks are willing to share their guns a bit?

i bet some folk would take you up on this.

beware about shipping things to the Rio.

yeah, some folks have problems with any of that. especially difficult is if you ship to the hotel itself as opposed to the business center. this year, we've been advised to get our major con shipments to the Rio on SUNDAY, well before DEFCON. the Business Center will hold your packages, etc.

[astcell]

Re: getting ammo and gear out to Vegas for the Shoot

Spend a day at a CCW class while in Las Vegas. They give non-resident permits.

[pukingmonkey]

Re: getting ammo and gear out to Vegas for the Shoot

need a day and a half --- class is a full day. then had to range qualify on specific ones wanted on the permit, but I hear they don't do that any more. and then the entire next morning at LVMPD dealing with the paperwork, fingerprints, mug shot.

Spend a day at a CCW class while in Las Vegas. They give non-resident permits.

[astcell]

Re: getting ammo and gear out to Vegas for the Shoot

Arrive early.

[Quiet]

Re: getting ammo and gear out to Vegas for the Shoot

need a day and a half --- class is a full day. then had to range qualify on specific ones wanted on the permit, but I hear they don't do that any more. and then the entire next morning at LVMPD dealing with the paperwork, fingerprints, mug shot.

NV CCW course is 8 hours and usually runs 0900-1700 hours.
LVMPD Fingerprint Bureau is open from 0800-1700 hours.
So, factor in one day for class and a few hours* on another day to turn in your application & get processed.
*depending on how busy it is, the process can take 15 mins to 3 hours.


In regards to qualifying, current NV laws requires you to qualify with a handgun (any type, any caliber).
Few years ago, the law changed so that you qualify with a handgun and can carry any handgun.

[rev.rance]

Re: getting ammo and gear out to Vegas for the Shoot

Deviant made this offer to me last year, my first DC shoot, and it just worked out super rad. Much appreciate! Will probably do the same this year if you're still rolling with the plan...

[TheSiscoCoon]

Re: getting ammo and gear out to Vegas for the Shoot

I live in NV, and well yes it would take about 2 days to get everything done if it is done on a work week. However LEGALLY you still don't have a CCW until the State does a background check on you and you ACTUALLY get your CCW Card in the mail. Once you get it in the mail then you are legally allowed to carry in NV. As of October 2013 (Think it was that month but close to it anyways) they changed the laws for CCW. You use to have to do your range test with a revolver if you every wanted to carry one and or a semi-auto if you ever wanted to carry one of those. Now.....it doesn't matter, you can use a revolver and still legally carry a Semi-Auto.

Now even though the State Laws says that ALL of NV is "Open Carry", some how Clark County (AKA Metro / Las Vegas) does not allow Open Carry. So while the State laws say you can you will probably get some trouble with Metro Police. Usually what they do is put a bogus warrant out for your arrest that they WILL never do anything with and tell you to leave Clark County. This info comes from a Detective from NV. He told me as well that Metro doesn't even like CCW's issued from other Counties in NV. But they will not do anything about that other than give you a hard time about it and let you go. But don't let all that scare you, you just have to keep in mind the city is a high tourist area with a lot of people not use to seeing guns. So as long as your smart about it they usually leave you alone. Like deviant said, keep it in a case an you should be good.

As for AMMO....I'm sorry I saw this so late. But I'll actually be out there in the desert on Monday the week of DefCon. Your welcome to ship all the ammo you guys want to my Mail Box and I'll bring it out there for you.

If your interested in doing that please PM me (TheSiscoCoon)

[cthulhucalling]

Re: getting ammo and gear out to Vegas for the Shoot

Hey folks - long time Vegas resident here and firearms enthusiast...

If you take the CCW class out here, it will take 2 days minimum to get the paperwork done, then up to 120 days to have the CCW actually issued to you. Until you have the card in hand, you are not authorized to concealed carry in Nevada unless you possess a CCW from another state that Nevada honors.

You can open carry anywhere in this state, with a few exceptions. You can't carry at any of Clark County's parks (such as Sunset where the ToxicBBQ is), which is one reason why the county shooting range had to change it's name. If the County ever modifies any of it's regulations about carrying, state pre-emption will kick in and people would be allowed to carry in the parks (the laws existed before state pre-emption). I would not recommend open carrying on the Strip, as there are numerous tourists that from elsewhere that do not know about Nevada's laws, and believe that their state/country's laws apply here (if you think it's crazy here, try Arizona where Constitutional Carry is allowed). I don't normally open carry, but sometimes I do and my encounters with the cops, when they even bother, have been positive. Usually it's because someone who isn't from here has called the cops about a MAN WITH A GUN ZOMG. A few cops are terribly misinformed about the law, but unfortunately we've come to expect that from people who are tasked with enforcing the law.

Metro does allow open carry as they have had quite a few "retraining" sessions after some unfortunate incidents. North Las Vegas is a slightly different story as their laws are a bit stricter, and I recommends staying out of NLV unless you live there. If you're visiting, I really recommend just keeping your guns locked up and out of sight until you get to the range, it will cause a minimum of fuss. If you're staying at a hotel, keep your guns locked up in a case, keep the key with you. Make sure that housekeeping doesn't come in unless you've really funked up the room or need more towels. The thing is to not attract attention that you are carrying firearms. For example, my gun cases that I use for travel do not have any stickers or anything that indicate that the contents of the case is something that goes BANG! If anyone asks what's in my Pelican rifle case, I usually tell them that it's a guitar, unless they're a LEO.

ALSO - VERY IMPORTANT- if you leave your hotel room and your guns or other valuables are in the room- make absolutely sure that the door is fully closed. Tug on the door to make sure that the latch has fully engaged. There are a lot of "door pushers" that roam the hotels. They push on doors, and the ones that aren't fully latched will open. They can rob you in seconds, and have actually robbed rooms with people in the room too.

Keep your gear locked up until you get to the range, have fun and lock your gear up before you leave. Doublecheck yourself before you get out of your car and enter the hotel, make sure you don't have any pistols in holsters or knives hanging off of belts, etc..

[Gigs]

Re: getting ammo and gear out to Vegas for the Shoot

I got my non-resident from Kurt Gepke in Las Vegas. He does it out of his house so it'll probably just be 3-4 people at the most. http://www.teamdigit.com/

We got the range time done on the same day as the class. He tends to ramble on so you might want to gently remind him of the time when it's getting closer to range closing time. You still need to set aside some time to go to the LVPD fingerprint center on another day which is like a huge DMV nightmare from hell. That takes a good 3 hours at least.

The range requirements are stupid easy. Just blast away at 3-5-7 yards until the required number of holes are in your target. You can semi-rapid fire the whole thing and do it in like 10 minutes if you have any shooting experience. Just don't piss off the range master by shooting way too fast.

I'm going to miss Defcon this year due to business and baby constraints. I'm going to miss the shoot the most. As always huge thanks to Deviant for making this happen. Try not to set any zombies on fire this year!

On a side note, I got my 07 FFL! Maybe next year I'll have even funner toys.

[cthulhucalling]

Re: getting ammo and gear out to Vegas for the Shoot

On the way to the shoot, there is a Bass Pro which will have most common calibers (except .22LR obviously), and will be name-brand ammunition (Federal, Winchester, Remington). Going down Blue Diamond a bit past Bass Pro is Las Vegas Gun Range. I've never been there, so I don't know what they sell but they should have ammo. There is another place called Ammo Supply Warehouse, which you can pick up your ammunition by appointment. I believe they also supply Front Sight, but I have no idea if they're in Vegas or Pahrump.

Near Bass Pro, but close to the Strip areGun and Ammo Garage and Range702, which will have factory ammo, but may be a bit more expensive as they're off-Strip indoor ranges. There is

You also can go into Pahrump to Stockpile Defense, which has a lot of common calibers but will be a lot of bulk stuff. If you call ahead, they sometimes will set your order aside so you can pick it up the day of the shoot. They supply a lot of ammo to Front Sight, which is a training school in Pahrump, so they run through ammo pretty quickly.