CISSP/Cisco Certification Prep classes...

[MrYowler]

I'm considering trying to set up a free 'boot camp'-style training course for these certifications, to offer at DefCon. I could use the CPE credits, especially on my CISSP credential. You'd have to spring for exam fees on your own - and find someplace to take the exams - but I'd be teaching the course for free - assuming that I can get space to do so, somewhere at DefCon 0x0b. If not, then I might have to charge some nominal fee to cover the cost of classroom space, based upon the number of interested participants.

Any interest?

I'd guess that if there are at least ten people attending any specific certification prep class, we probably have enough to hold one. If we have over about 30, then we might need to contact the DefCon organizers about getting a conference room for it, since it would be hard to hold it informally, with so many participants.

I'm curious to see what the interest level is, to make a guess as to whether to do it at all, and at what level of planning... I'm thinking that just about any other certification 'boot camp' training is usually held at much more expensive conferences, and costs a lot of money, and not everyone can afford to participate. Perhaps something like this will open up this sort of training to a broader economic cross-section of folks - or at least save a few people a few bucks - I know it would have helped me a great deal, to have had access to something like this, a long time ago... :)



MrYowler

[Chris]

I am not sure this is a bad idea per se...but have you really looked at the logistics? As a speaker you are going to have 1-2 hours to present. Is it possible to give any amount of quality information in that time?

[MrYowler]

Logistics...

Actually, I was hoping to either set aside an area for continuous instruction, for about 8-10 hours each day, or use one of the rooms at the Alexis (yes, that means I'd have to reserve a large suite), if it's not possible to run continuous classes in the common areas (and if demand for the classes is low enough that we can squeeze people into such a space).

Since there is only one of me, I was hoping to leverage the CyberArmy University instructional resources (I have some influence with CyberArmy, and I would, of course, pre-train the staff members involved in conducting the classes). I'd probably teach, personally, for several hours each day, and then float from class to class to lab area, and just make sure that things are running properly.

The way I figure it, if the classes turn out to be a complete bust, then there was nothing lost - since, after all, no one paid for them (well, that's my goal, anyhow). After all, nothing ventured, nothing gained... :-P

The plan is to provide three full days of training, in whichever subject areas prove to be popular, and I am able to organize. It will probably be possible to attend only one training track, due to time constraints, but, again, it's supposed to be free, so one prep training track is better than zero... :)

Good points though. To be honest, I haven't taught a structured class in nearly 15 years, and back then, it was English as a Second Language. There is every possibility that I will simply suck at this. I just figure that there is more to be gained by trying, than by not trying.

:)



MrYowler

[blackwave]

Re: Logistics...

Originally posted by MrYowler
Actually, I was hoping to either set aside an area for continuous instruction, for about 8-10 hours each day, or use one of the rooms at the Alexis (yes, that means I'd have to reserve a large suite), if it's not possible to run continuous classes in the common areas (and if demand for the classes is low enough that we can squeeze people into such a space).

Just an aside really MrYowler, but how many defcons have you personally attended, especially at the AP?

[astcell]

Dang, I was hoping we could have the classes at the Subway next door.

[Chris]

Re: Logistics...

Originally posted by MrYowler
Actually, I was hoping to either set aside an area for continuous instruction, for about 8-10 hours each day, or use one of the rooms at the Alexis (yes, that means I'd have to reserve a large suite), if it's not possible to run continuous classes in the common areas (and if demand for the classes is low enough that we can squeeze people into such a space).

Since there is only one of me, I was hoping to leverage the CyberArmy University instructional resources (I have some influence with CyberArmy, and I would, of course, pre-train the staff members involved in conducting the classes). I'd probably teach, personally, for several hours each day, and then float from class to class to lab area, and just make sure that things are running properly.

The way I figure it, if the classes turn out to be a complete bust, then there was nothing lost - since, after all, no one paid for them (well, that's my goal, anyhow). After all, nothing ventured, nothing gained... :-P

The plan is to provide three full days of training, in whichever subject areas prove to be popular, and I am able to organize. It will probably be possible to attend only one training track, due to time constraints, but, again, it's supposed to be free, so one prep training track is better than zero... :)

Good points though. To be honest, I haven't taught a structured class in nearly 15 years, and back then, it was English as a Second Language. There is every possibility that I will simply suck at this. I just figure that there is more to be gained by trying, than by not trying.

:)



MrYowler

I certainly don't speak for DT, but I find it highly, I say HIGHLY, unlikely that he would even consider giving you an entire area. We are monstrously short on space as it is. If you are willing to pay for a large suite yourself and run it from there he may go for it...MAY i say. CFP opens soon though, you never know.

[MrYowler]

DefCon Experience

I did go to last years' conference, and yes, I am aware of the space limitations. The sandwich shop next to the hotel is not entirely out of the question... :)

I'm thinking that classes of this nature represent a significant enough value, to warrant a space for them. If demand is low - or if demand is curtailed by a fee requirement, to cover the cost of space - then the space need not be extremely large.

I am not an expert on DT's likes and dislikes, but I am still operating on the 'nothing to lose' principle. If I don't ask around to find out what the level of interest is, then I won't know, and nothing is accomplished. If I do ask, then nothing may still be accomplished - or perhaps something may be. Perhaps even something great...! :) I won't know, until I ask around... :)

If DT vetoes the idea, then I'll take it informal, and pursue it independently - though that will certainly reduce the availability of class space, and the scope of people who are aware of the idea. If it bombs out, altogether, then I'll abandon the idea. In the meantime, I'd just like to see if anyone is interested. We still have some months left, to work out the logistics and the details - not all of the answers need to be found, immediately.

So... any interest? :-P



MrYowler

[octalpus]

While I wouldn't mind some sort of in depth discussion on one or more of these certs, it's certainly not something I want to devote my entire weekend to. There is just too much to do at Con that I would want to give all that up to do a cert training. Just my $.02.

[MrYowler]

a good point...

Nevertheless, I have heard several folks express some interest, outside of this forum, and that's why I posted, here. Perhaps if I break up the class, into four-hour segments, and run one starting early, and another, ending late? Do you think that the relevant material could be squeezed into less time? I made my guess, for time, based upon the length of other, similar paid courses that I have seen... I suspect that in a free course, there will be a bit more of the heckler and class-clown mentality - especially at a 'hacker' convention - so I'm thinking that the classes may run a bit more slowly than in professional environs.

I'm certainly open to thoughts and suggestions - but I really was principally looking to see what the interest level was... :)

Not that this should stop us from starting to plan it out, if there is actually some significant interest... :)

Admittedly, I don't want to spend the whole 'Con, teaching, either... :)



MrYowler

[blackwave]

Re: a good point...

Originally posted by MrYowler
I suspect that in a free course, there will be a bit more of the heckler and class-clown mentality - especially at a 'hacker' convention - so I'm thinking that the classes may run a bit more slowly than in professional environs.

you certainly have a lot to learn if all you can do is put your imposed thoughts with the 'hacker' label as you have done so above... why even bother doing this at a 'hacker' convention?...

[MrYowler]

The word 'hacker'... again...

You inherit the public perception of the word, when you leverage it's power. DefCon is known as a 'hacker' convention, much as 2600 is known as a 'hacker' magazine. Whether you agree with the usage or the public perception that it creates, you get what you get. They're not my thoughts, specifically - it's the reality that is brought on by public perception. It is why I place quotes around the H-word; it's true meaning is hotly debated, but the meaning that it typically carries, in the contract to communicate, is very probably not the technically correct one.

If the public perception of the word 'hacker', includes the script kiddies, black-hats, and social reprobates that you prefer not to be lumped in with, then it's time to abandon the word. Though the media may have corrupted it improperly, it is fully corrupt, now - there's not much chance of getting it back, and it's probably the wrong battle to be fighting, in any event.

Get used to the fact that the kids who want to be 'hackers', like they see on television and at the movies, are going to be at your conferences, and attending your classes. They think that your forums are the place to be, to learn what they need to know, to fight The Matrix. You can either deal with what is, try to change what is, or complain about what is. I find that this list of options also neatly summarizes the order of effectiveness, and perhaps also the order of importance, when choosing battles to fight... :)

I naturally assume that there will be a few of these folks interested in classes. I won't kick them out, for poor ethics, poor role models, immaturity, or ignorance. Just for disruptive behavior... And I'm inclined to try to be tolerant, since these folks are the ones that have the most difficulty getting access to a useful education, and are also the ones who are typically most in need of guidance. You'd be surprised at just how pliable and cooperative they become, once integrated into the fabric of acceptance. If they feel that they are being treated fairly, they are very often quite respectful. It usually just takes a little extra patience... :)



MrYowler

[blackwave]

you should really listen to yourself talk.

my post that you just replied to in such verbose manner had nothing to do with the hacker labeling that we all dread... I was merely mentioning that you consider 'hackers' (in single quotes for your benefit) to be slow, troublemaking types... you have an obvious disdain for hackers (not in quotes for my benefit)... if anyone would be kicked out of anything it would be you sir.

[octalpus]

Re: a good point...

Originally posted by MrYowler
Nevertheless, I have heard several folks express some interest, outside of this forum, and that's why I posted, here. Perhaps if I break up the class, into four-hour segments, and run one starting early, and another, ending late? Do you think that the relevant material could be squeezed into less time? I made my guess, for time, based upon the length of other, similar paid courses that I have seen... I suspect that in a free course, there will be a bit more of the heckler and class-clown mentality - especially at a 'hacker' convention - so I'm thinking that the classes may run a bit more slowly than in professional environs.

Your stereotypes disgust me. Yes, I saw your defense, and no, I'm not buying it. You claim to have attended a Con previously, but did you attend any serious talks? Did you observe the audience? If there are challenges from the audience, they are either legitimate challenges, or they are quickly squelched by a brusque rebuttal. If anything, this audience would want a faster paced course, as the attendees in general tend to be bright individuals who get bored quickly if not challenged, and who generally mock the Mickey Mouse courses offered in more traditional settings.

How are we supposed to deal with the problem of how the outside world perceives us if people claiming to be part of the community continue to perpetuate the myths?