Announcement

seeess · July 22, 2015, 13:53

I support something like this, I mean technically we're on public land and they can do whatever they want. But if there's a process where they can interview the organizer and have participants more easily understand that they've pre-agreed to certain terms, the press can hopefully get more content/statements for their article.

Have you had any requests? Outside of the defcon film crew, I dont remember seeing much press on the shoot in past years (but maybe I just didn't see it)

TheCotMan · July 22, 2015, 15:15

Originally posted by seeess View Post

I support something like this, I mean technically we're on public land and they can do whatever they want. But if there's a process where they can interview the organizer and have participants more easily understand that they've pre-agreed to certain terms, the press can hopefully get more content/statements for their article.

Have you had any requests? Outside of the defcon film crew, I dont remember seeing much press on the shoot in past years (but maybe I just didn't see it)

It has happened in the past. There was DC19:

https://forum.defcon.org/defcon/past...press-interest

HTH,
-Cot

Deviant Ollam · July 23, 2015, 10:21

so it seems this is a very prudent point to have raised, as we have gotten a press contact this year, too.

Hello, I’m a BBC journalist coming along to Def Con this year. I’m getting in touch to see if it’ll be okay for me to attend the shoot. I thought I had better ask rather than just pay and turn up as I’m aware that some folks are uneasy with the presence of the press at the convention so don’t want to intrude on places where people are expecting not to be bothered. It’d be great if I could record some audio at the event and chat to folks about the Con and what they like about it.
FYI – I regularly cover security stories for the BBC and know some of the folks that arrange Def Con so hopefully I’m not as clueless as some sections of the media. But let me know if it would be okay to come along, it’d be a great way to get a taste of what Def Con is all about.

So, the great Trey Ford (and his hair) wrote this piece recently about Black Hat which contains some useful points regarding the press and the media...

https://community.rapid7.com/communi...he-media-press

...i'm particularly a fan of the following policy:

anyone taking video must have a sticker visible on their badge signifying that they’re been approved for video, and that they agree to Black Hat’s video policies, like the ones about subject consent and shoulder surfing.

I think that's a pretty decent way of approaching the "Press" badge issue. Instead of making it its own standalone credential for entry, a "Press" badge can act as a supplementary identifier, worn in addition to whatever badge the DC Shoot attendee is using. The Press badge will be nothing more than a sign to others that this person has been given a copy of the rules regarding photo and film and privacy, etc. And a criteria for the badge would be showing ID and signing the legal waiver that you are accepting those rules. I don't know if we'd get people to sign if there were a clause in there about liquidated damages should they violate the rules, but this is all interesting to me.

So who would wear a Press badge? well, i'm thinking that anyone who is filming with high-end cameras or otherwise there clearly in a capacity to speak with and interview and report on the proceedings. What about friends of ours who are just casual attendees but also have nice cameras? (I'm thinking of AST, z0rlac, and others) Well, many of us old-hands at the Shoot know them, but new folk don't. They just see $1,000 Nikon and Canon gear and may wonder "where are these photos going to be??" ... so i'd encourage even our old friends like those to go through the Press process and wear a Press badge in addition to their usual badge. It's just for everbody's comfort.

If you are shooting footage with your smartphone or pocket camera and the context makes it pretty clear that this is for personal use, I doubt anyone would get into a twist about you. But, of course, the same policy as always applies: consent before filming someone, avoid large group shots (unless it's at such a distance that no one is recognizable -- some great photos have happened from up on the rear hill), and just don't be a nuisance.

I also like this policy, because reporters could come and meet us and not pay a dime, because the "Press" badge wouldn't entail shooting. If they want to get any trigger time, then they'd need a Shooter badge (or a Military badge if there are/were in the service or an Un-Free badge if they're from London or Sydney or the L.A. Times, hah)

What do you all think? I'm likely to tell the BBC folk of this... that there will be a requirement that they agree to our press policy and then they're welcome to come by. If they want to shoot, too, then they'd need a standard badge, as well.

Deviant Ollam · July 23, 2015, 10:36

So here's the reply I just sent to our media contact who reached out from the BBC...

Hello, Mark. :-)

Thank you for getting in touch! I can see from some quick googling that you've done terrific stories about retrocomputing, data privacy, etc. You're also on Twitter, but you're kind of not on Twitter. Hah. (Last tweet was 2009? Did you loose your password? :-D

OK, in all seriousness, thanks for reaching out. We would be more than happy to welcome you and any associates to the DEF CON Shoot. There have been a few reporters and others from the media who appeared there in the past and it has gone smoothly and been quite educational.

Here is how our system would work for you (as of this year)...

1. the land itself is public, so there's really no restriction as to who can be there at all, whether they've paid, identified themselves, etc. public land is public land.

2. in order to shoot firearms in the established lanes, under the shade canopies, a person must have an event badge. These are purchased online via pre-reg or on-site with cash. I think you're familiar about this part already. (and do you know of the discounts regarding folk from overseas?)

3. in order to shoot photos or video for publication, a person must have a press badge. These are available at no cost, but they do require that the individual be briefed on the rules and policies about attendee privacy and the Press participant must sign off on these rules.

... so there are some permutations there:

A. Press can show up and not opt for any badges at all. Just wander around, speak to whomever, do whatever they like, etc. Some folk might meet you, others would steer clear due to lack of badge.

B. Press can show up and only register for a Press badge. This gives them wider latitude to mingle, shoot footage, etc. Folk will be a little warmer toward people who have identified as press and registered as such. Such a person wouldn't be shooting, however.

C. Press can register as such, get their Press badge, but also pay and register as a Shooter, too. This way they can be right up at the front of the firing line to get trigger time, in between their liberal use of photo and video equipment. Policies of respecting privacy still apply, but it's the most full experience.

... hope that's clear! We'd love to have you come and learn, in any of the above capacities... whatever works best for you.

- dev

- -- ----- ----------
On 2015-07-23 09:07, Mark Ward wrote:
- -- ----- ----------

Hello, I’m a BBC journalist coming along to Def Con this year. I’m getting in touch to see if it’ll be okay for me to attend the shoot. I thought I had better ask rather than just pay and turn up as I’m aware that some folks are uneasy with the presence of the press at the convention so don’t want to intrude on places where people are expecting not to be bothered. It’d be great if I could record some audio at the event and chat to folks about the Con and what they like about it.

FYI – I regularly cover security stories for the BBC and know some of the folks that arrange Def Con so hopefully I’m not as clueless as some sections of the media. But let me know if it would be okay to come along, it’d be a great way to get a taste of what Def Con is all about.

Many thanks

Mark

Deviant Ollam · July 23, 2015, 10:43

another thought: unlike all other DEF CON Shoot badges (which are traditionally worn on one's back, either pinned to a collar or rear side of a hat, etc) the Press badges should be pinned/clipped to one's chest or otherwise worn in front.

anyone who needs to know that someone is Press (because they're speaking to them or being filmed by them) should see that front-and-center. if the member of the media is also shooting, then their Shooter badge will still be on their back collar, etc.

Deviant Ollam · July 23, 2015, 11:55

this is the form I anticipate having members of the Press or Media initial and sign in order to get a Press badge... http://deviating.net/firearms/defcon...s_reg_form.pdf

astcell · July 23, 2015, 21:29

Have the Press introduce themselves at the very start. They are not secretive and they can even ask at that time for volunteers to be interviewed and videod. They can explain what they are doing and maybe we have just the type of person they wish to speak to for the perfect story.

As the area is public, there is no right to privacy or right to not have your picture taken. If someone stands on the hill with a 2000mm lens all you can do it not face toward them. It is very nice that this BBC guy is inquiring instead of just going at it paparazzi style. More flies with honey and all that.

My photos end up on hackerphotos.com and DEF CON gets a copy. I also provide to anyone who wants images of themselves for facebook, greeting cards, etc. I have stayed alive this long doing it because I do not photograph those who don't want it, and I delete pictures on request.

I welcome the representative of the Revolutionary War 2nd place holder!

Deviant Ollam · July 24, 2015, 12:19

Thanks for all the feedback.

Also, online pre-reg is closed. :-)

See you all in the desert!!

hollywoody · July 30, 2015, 17:33

Can I pretty please register for the Defcon shoot.... I am a X boy scout with fire arm safety training. I have transportation brass and iron. Please Mr Deviant Ollam may I participate?

Gigs · July 31, 2015, 16:21

Only if you start spelling firearm as one word. We tend to avoid arms on fire, though zombies have been known to be on fire before.

seeess · July 31, 2015, 21:37

hollywoody, only the online pre registration has closed, anyone can show up and pay cash on site. Though you won't have a lane, but if your plan was to rent guns anyway, you will be using the lane of whoever you rent from.

or you can always shoot ~100 yards away or so since it is public land.

Announcement

Pre-Registration [has] Closed ... and a possible new category of registration: "Press"

Pre-Registration [has] Closed ... and a possible new category of registration: "Press"

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