A couple of questions regarding all the hacker and security groups out there.

[guano]

I'm just curious...
A local DC group is starting to form in my area. In nearby cities, there are many other user groups (Linux, Unix, Novell, etc.), formal organizations (e.g., ISSA chapters), and even a few 2600 groups.

The DC group hasn't even had their first meeting yet, and already a few of the 2600 group members are viewing it as elitest, competition, and are having a very hard time understanding why we don't want to be part of their 2600 group.

(From what I can tell, the initial people to join the DC group never attended or stopped attending the local 2600 groups for various reasons. So it's not like the 2600 group is losing people.)

The DC group "leader" has repeatedly said (in the email forum and on the DC group web page) that the DC group is not intended as competition, but as yet another forum for people to meet and learn. The 2600 group just had their meeting for this month are one guy is already complaining that none of the DC folks bothered to attend their 2600 group meeting.

So my questions are...
1. Has any of the other DC groups experienced this type of reaction from the local 2600 groups?
Perhaps I should chalk it up to immaturity and just ignore it...

2. Different groups have different focuses (foci?). How are the DC groups different from 2600, LUG, ISSA, etc. (If there is a need for a different group, what makes it different?) -- NOTE: I know my answer to this question, but I want other opinions first...

[russ]

Okay, I'll try to answer your questions. Let me know if you need more.

I'm just curious...
A local DC group is starting to form in my area. In nearby cities, there are many other user groups (Linux, Unix, Novell, etc.), formal organizations (e.g., ISSA chapters), and even a few 2600 groups.

:o
<russr> The DC Group concept is more of a hobby thing. When it all comes down to it, we're all into technology. I stopped going to 2600 years ago because it was strictly about partying, boozing, or just hanging out. And that's cool, but that's not what I wanted to spend my time doing. Does that mean that 2600 is bad? No. Will I attend another 2600 meeting? Sure, but it depends on the group. I have technical interests and as I get older, I'd rather spend my time "learning" and "researching" than hanging out. </russr>

The DC group "leader" has repeatedly said (in the email forum and on the DC group web page) that the DC group is not intended as competition, but as yet another forum for people to meet and learn. The 2600 group just had their meeting for this month are one guy is already complaining that none of the DC folks bothered to attend their 2600 group meeting.

So my questions are...
1. Has any of the other DC groups experienced this type of reaction from the local 2600 groups? Perhaps I should chalk it up to immaturity and just ignore it...

:o <russr> The DCG 303 is having slightly more severe reactions from the 303 2600 group. But we more or less expected it from them. I'm advising everyone just to be cordial and try to ignore the 2600 reactions. It's mostly just ignorance of what we're about and maybe even a little fear that we're here to take over. And that's simply not the truth. </russr>

2. Different groups have different focuses (foci?). How are the DC groups different from 2600, LUG, ISSA, etc. (If there is a need for a different group, what makes it different?) -- NOTE: I know my answer to this question, but I want other opinions first...

:o <russr> 2600 used to be really cool. IMHO it's too political at the top and too loose at the bottom. This entire architecture makes it difficult to learn new things or research projects as a group, etc. The LUG is primarily Linux, whereas the DCG has no specific focus except what the group decides to focus on. The way I envision this is that different groups get really interested in various areas of technology and start "playing around" with it. Eventually, every group will have something cool to offer everyone else and the industry in general. The ISSA is a professional group. The only presentations I EVER see at these damn meetings are sales oriented. Ugh. And I've got to admit that even with 130 members of the ISSA here in "military heavy" Colorado Springs, very FEW of them are interested in spending time really "investigating" or "researching".

I hope this helps you somewhat. We're looking at a technical meeting for people genuinely interested in technology. This includes all OS, hardware, wired and wireless, earth or space based, security, non-security, etc. It's not professional, it's a hobby. And no, we're not out to take over the world. The KEY to all of this is the POC or DCG leader that helps keep things in line, set goals, arrange meetings, drive the motivation, etc. </russr>

[hackajar]

Is 2600 not more general topic driven? with freaking most of it's focus? (just guessing, my 2600 has been a dead fish for years). Thought the dcg would be more about beefing up on tech stuff, and different mind set then 2600.

Different as in, cut the crap, here is the nity gritty. Not so much vague theory, or verbal mastubastion on "how cool would it be if...". It would also be handy around July, to use your local group, to get feed back if your speaking at DC that year. Or if a topic you want to talk about is interesting to even submit (hater's in group not with standing).

Push me back on track if I'm off base

[skroo]

DC Groups meetings, etc.

I think there's something in the creation of the DC Groups that was overlooked: many of Defcon's core (meaning long-time) attendees are also long-time attendees at established local meetings in their area - and these meetings are themselves a core part of the community, not just in that locality but also as a whole.

Most local meetings that have survived for longer than six months to a year have done so simply because they have been very selective in who and what they do and do not tolerate. Example: at la2600, everyone is welcome to attend, but we reserve the right to throw your ass out if your behaviour is putting the meeting in jeopardy. After more than a decade of meeting at the same place month in and month out, we're not going to ruin good relations with our hosts because nutsack1337 wants to run around screaming, "2600 SEZ FUCK DA MAN!!!" while kicking over trash cans.

How this relates to the DC Groups: the main issue is that nobody from an established meeting wants nutsack1337 running a parallel meeting that may end up being - wrongly or otherwise - confused with the established ones. Another example: la2600 has, in the past, received email from people who have attended other semi-local 2600 meetings that sucked, asking us to do something about it. We have no control over what other people do, but we're still being tarred with the same brush.

It's kind of like living next door to the crackhouse. You may not be the guy selling crack, but try telling that to the cops when you come home in the middle of their raid on the guy next to you. Notice that in areas where the DC Groups have been headed up by people already known to the local community as decent human beings this issue is effectively moot - the problem is only where those heading up the meetings are either unknown quantities or known tards.

And finally, if an established meeting is worried about a DC Groups meeting 'stealing' its attendees, then all I can say is that that meeting must be doing something very wrong. This isn't about having big numbers, it's about getting together and exchanging information.

[hackajar]

skroo - I second that motion. Stealing, to me, can mean one of two things:

1. People didn't like the crowd / content of x meeting

2. Current meeting has more fill, less bs

If there are two meetings for two different groups that are held on two separate day's, I see no valitity in the notion that someone is "stealing" people from another.

This seems to politial to me. I thought this was just going to be people meeting other people like themselfs', and making a rock solid foundation in their designated community for good "culture" and further improving the minds of said people involved.

Who cares about status, rank, or even media coverage (or lack there of).

This is also not about creating a "skulls" organization of secret elite. Doesn't this not probe more suspcion about a group the does no wrong? Damit why can't we just have fun with other like us in our community for more than just 3 days out of the year? Isn't THAT what this is all about?

God damit, son of a...good for nothing... Ugh!
/me locates zoloft pills