Forum Hacking?

[jamesl]

Sorry to sound like a complete noob here but I am new and I was wondering if any Internet forums have ever been hacked into. I mean by an intruder gaining access through a program or through another way and what I was also wondering is how secure are they? And are they breakable?

[TheCotMan]

I was wondering if any Internet forums have ever been hacked into.

Yes.

I mean by an intruder gaining access through a program or through another way and what

Method of entry is through an unhandled flaw in the security model in place for the specific forum or the underlying trust relationships assumed by the creators.

I was also wondering is how secure are they?

Depends upon the forum. Pick a forum-system, and examine bugs reqports (quantity) and rate them by severity and use this as a weight against your count to derive a risk assesment.

And are they breakable?

Yes. I know of nothing which can be made, but cannot be broken; the most obvious, "non-leet", brain-dead, and trivial is a DoS. If not in the forum, then in an underlying layer which is assumed to be trusted by the forum. For one security risk for breakage to exist is sufficient to count it as being breakable.

Danger! Danger! Will Robinson!

Be careful where you go from here with this line of questioning.

[phobal]

No. Never. A web forum is yet to be hacked. They are wholly secure and unbreakable. There are no vulnerabilities or exploits. Go home.

[astcell]

If you just have to hack a forum run over to AOL and make people's floppy drives spin and CD drives go in and out. A bit of good advice is to never hack a site full of computer wizards. Trust me on this one. You are better off trying to pull off a robbery at a police station.

[IcEbLAze]

If you just have to hack a forum run over to AOL and make people's floppy drives spin and CD drives go in and out. A bit of good advice is to never hack a site full of computer wizards. Trust me on this one. You are better off trying to pull off a robbery at a police station.

Not to mention some computer wizards are police

[jesse]

Sorry to sound like a complete noob here but I am new and I was wondering if any Internet forums have ever been hacked into.

No, never been done.

I mean by an intruder gaining access through a program or through another way and what I was also wondering is how secure are they? And are they breakable?

Nope, totally secure.

[Thorn]

Not to mention some computer wizards are police

Shhhh!
Those are rumors only. Completely unfounded. Nothing to see here, please move along.

[astcell]

Seeing as computer work pays about 200% as that of police work, I guess those geniusses are just hanging around for the retirement. :p

[TheCotMan]

Seeing as computer work pays about 200% as that of police work, I guess those geniusses are just hanging around for the retirement. :p

Met several of these people. Here are some of their reasons:
1) More stability in their job
2) They were "sold" on the idea that they would be able to "catch bad guys" and "make a better world for Cherolet, USA, Mother and Apple Pie."
3) They were sold on the idea that "this is for national security" and to "help fight terrorism" (Uh. Yeah. More like help RIAA and copyright law enforcement.)
4) They are drawn to the illusion of power. (None admitted this to me, but it seemed obvious based on their excitment and how they chose to emphasize parts of their stories.)

You bring up another suggestion, but the ones I have met are decades from retirement. Of course, this seems to play very well with your comment on their level of intelligence. ;-)

Understanding what motivates people to do what they do is very useful. ]:>

[jesse]

at least police work is a stable job that can't be outsourced to india... unlike all computer jobs.

[Thorn]

Catching bad guys is a good thing to do. The computer investigations I was involved in were always about things like murder, rape and burglary. The people who commit such crimes all use computers, too; and use them in the commission of their crimes. (Never once did I ever do any kind of copyright infringement case.)

As to why people get in and stay in law enforcement (just for the record, I got out before full retirement kicked in ;) ), one big motivation is the sense of being helpful to the community. Something that is often cited as drawing people into virtual places, but is just as true as a motivator in real world places, if not more so. As TheCotMan said "Understanding what motivates people to do what they do is very useful." Somethings the motivation has a lot less to do with money and more about trying to actually make the world a better place at a local level rather than giving lip service to such ideals. It's easy to complain about how violent crime is bad and "something should be done"; it's a lot harder to actually get out there and arrest an armed rapist at 3AM, when you're alone and backup is ten minutes way.

Power? Sure it's there to a certain extent. It's probably at about the same level as those sysadmins who use "god" as an a password. You grow out of such juvenile things very quickly, or you get bounced pretty quickly.

[TheCotMan]

Catching bad guys is a good thing to do.

By definition this is true. However, this is because of the definition of "bad" and the defintion of "good" which are tied together.

Where my sarcastic comment comes to play is, _how_ bad is defined as well as, _who_ defines it. :-/

[Meant to illustrate the relative nature of words like good and bad and how events and items may be placed in each bin (good or bad) differently by different people. As a result, a person will use their own definition of "bad" when evaluating your statement, but your definition of bad and their may not include the same things.]

Many will accept murder, rape and burglary (by legal definitions in U.S. states) are bad, but dissention comes to play when you start asking people about other things that should be considered bad.

In China (for example) use of Crypto is "bad" while in the U.S. is has been regulated and restricted through our history through bit-length restriction, registration of source code/algo, etc. Breaking Crypto was considered "good" by the UK during World War II with Enigma/Bletchley Park, but then recent laws in the UK threatened to make possession of anything which could be encrypted data, illegal. (I recall the discussions of this, where people were going to argue the "random data" they had on disks were actually source of entropy to try to get around this law and ensure personal privacy.)

In the U.S., reverse engineering a product to purposefully break a crypto system so that a product can be made available to people who have ADA issues is "bad" (profit is a greater good than Access for people with handicap) but in Russia, such behavior is "good" and encouraged, as they tend to see availability for equal access as more important.

My complaint is over where the lines are drawn for, "bad." Police have some choices on what laws to enforce. Departments can set selective policy on what laws are considered more important than others. When police (including supervisors and commisioner) choose to enforce stupid laws, or laws which should not exist, I have gripes.

The computer investigations I was involved in were always about things like murder, rape and burglary. The people who commit such crimes all use computers, too; and use them in the commission of their crimes. (Never once did I ever do any kind of copyright infringement case.)

Few would disagree with enforcement of the above laws.

The crimes you list suggest that you were part of a local or state police department. Their goals are a bit different from the Federal computer crime groups which seem to be headed to become the right arm for the RIAA in making copyright violation prosecution part of a federal requirement. The local/state police seem to target the ones you mention as well as child porn. Yes, fed can get involved in the crimes you mention, but most are likely not handled by the feds.

As to why people get in and stay in law enforcement...(more content removed)

There is truth in your paragraph and you bring up valid points.

Power? Sure it's there to a certain extent. It's probably at about the same level as those sysadmins who use "god" as an a password. You grow out of such juvenile things very quickly, or you get bounced pretty quickly.

I [hope to] never grow out of the sensation of power I feel in being a Sysadmin and doing the work that I do. The sense of power I feel is one of Man vs. Machine or Man vs. System more than Man vs. User. Sure, I read BOFH, but do not act like one (most of the time.) Your "up-time" becomes your reputation. You have power as a sysadmin: Power to make things work. Power to fix things. Power to help prevent things from breaking.

In Police work, most of the power has to do with power over other people. To test if power is not an issue with police officers, test the following on your own:

The next time you are pulled over for speeding (etc) tell the officer, "You can't give me a ticket." I can nearly guarantee, you will get a ticket. Why? Consider their thoughts, "Nobody is going to tell ME what to do!" Where does this come from? Perception of the offender not recognizing the "power" of the officer.

[Edit: Added content above in [ ] to clarify]

[phobal]

at least police work is a stable job that can't be outsourced to india... unlike all computer jobs.

but whose going to watch over those tech workers, huuuuuuuuuh?

[yankee]

By definition this is true. However, this is because of the definition of "bad" and the defintion of "good" which are tied together.

[stuff deleted]

My complaint is over where the lines are drawn for, "bad." Police have some choices on what laws to enforce. Departments can set selective policy on what laws are considered more important than others. When police (including supervisors and commisioner) choose to enforce stupid laws, or laws which should not exist, I have gripes.

What gripes? People have broken the law. The specific law my be stupid in your eyes (or mine), but honestly, that doesn't really matter. It's the law. They get paid to enforce the it. They don't get paid to judge what is "good" or "bad", and really, I don't want them doing that anyway. So in a few, isolated cases they're capricious about it; welcome to the human race. It's everywhere--not just the cops.

You need look no further than this forum for evidence that even intelligent people are subject to this. Established users openly disregard the stated forum rules, while noobs are blasted for slight deviations. It's not just the cops.

The next time you are pulled over for speeding (etc) tell the officer, "You can't give me a ticket." I can nearly guarantee, you will get a ticket. Why? Consider their thoughts, "Nobody is going to tell ME what to do!" Where does this come from? Perception of the offender not recognizing the "power" of the officer.

Bad example. Consider it from the cop's perspective. Our society (or any society) doesn't work without adherence to laws, and it's his responsibility to enforce them. A good cop understands that if he can't do his job, shit breaks down. When you're taling about an entire society, shit breaking down at this level is a pretty bad thing (been to Philly or Detroit lately?). So if someone says, "You can't give me a ticket," what they're really saying is, "I'm too important to be bothered by being a part of society, fuck everyone else." That person should get a ticket as a reminder that they're not the only kid in the sandbox. It has nothing to do with power.

From your previous post:

2) They were "sold" on the idea that they would be able to "catch bad guys" and "make a better world for Cherolet, USA, Mother and Apple Pie."

I am also sold on this idea. And I'm not a cop. Never have been. Don't know any.

[badboy_xtra]

Speaking of stupid laws

You would think that all judicial programs focused on the most important laws. Unfortunately their are people out there that are engulfed in their own sense of self-security, i.e. "that kind of thing thing could never happen to me." They fail to recognize to what extent the law really protects.

I personally admire all law enforcement and their ability to respond to crimes, however i find a lot of doubt in their ability to prevent crimes. Instead of the higher powers taking action to better prevent crimes, they would rather spend money on laws that punish those that do wrong.

On a lighter note, too much time is spent making stupid laws. For instance, South Carolina has just passed a law that makes it illegal to braid hair without a license. The law sat in the state house for 5 months waiting for approval...5 months!