Will i be able to get a job?

[AnoesisX]

Hi, I am currenly taking a course for MCSE and i am just wondering will it be easy getting a job? Is anyone on here a MCSE? Whats your salary? and where do u work? I might be able to get a job at microsoft through this guy i know if i pass the tests.

[noid]

Heh. You're about 7 years too late for that cert to make much of a difference. Hope you saved the reciept.

Seriously though, the MCSE will get you a McJob and not much more. Since everyone else has it too, it doesnt put you much above the masses. The trick is to get a cert that still has some meaning. The CISSP still has something going for it, but its getting blown out too. Look into the GIAC series of certifications.

[AnoesisX]

Heh. You're about 7 years too late for that cert to make much of a difference. Hope you saved the reciept.

Seriously though, the MCSE will get you a McJob and not much more. Since everyone else has it too, it doesnt put you much above the masses. The trick is to get a cert that still has some meaning. The CISSP still has something going for it, but its getting blown out too. Look into the GIAC series of certifications.

So your saying getting certifed in that isn't worth getting? My teacher has been in the business for 15 years and is certified in everything and has a book that he wrote for ccna. he said that there are plenty of good paying jobs out there and that he has a couple of clients looking for MCSEs and he said when Microsoft first started the MCSE Certification, his students were droping out of class because they were getting 60k a year jobs with only passing 1 or 2 tests that only had 20 questions, and the tests were really easy, so everyone got certified and but when they went out to work they didn't know what they were doing and companys started to pay less cuz the market was flooded with MCSEs. Now the tests are harder and those people with certifications from a while back were not schooled in windows server 2k3. I plan to get a job work for a 1-3 years then go back to college to get my bachlors of computer science in computer animation

[Shiva]

Noid's right. The MCSE has become a "beginning" cert these days. People start off getting a MCP, MCSE, A+, or a CCNA and then build out from there depending on what area of IT they're most interested in.

There's certs for anything and everything these days. Since Novell launched their certification program back in the day, almost every single major hardware and software vendor offers some sort of certification program. Some have some real value in the market, and some offer no long-term benefits at all. You need to do some real research before you write that first check and take your first exam.

Keep in mind, a certification alone doesn't guarantee you the job of your choice and the deep green you're craving. Most employers view certs as confirmations of technical skill sets, not as the key reason for hiring someone. A "paper cert" won't make it beyond the first technical interview in most organizations.

You see a lot of people in the market these days that have five certifications and no practical experience in IT or security. Ask them where they've applied what they learned to get their certs and the answer you get most often is "in the lab", "at home". or "I've never actually done X (insert your favorite flavor here)"

Let's face it, no certification's ever going to replace 5, 10, or 15 years of diverse technical experience.

[noid]

As I stated in my first post, an MCSE will get you a McJob. That doesnt mean you have to stay there. Job experience is the only thing that will carry you to where you want to go. Certs without experience are meaningless bullshit. When I review resumes and see things like MCSE, CCNA, and even CISSP, but no real experience I put that resume in the round file. Someone who has tons of certs and no real world experience is not someone I need in my organzation. I would rather take the guy with work experience who hasnt gotten the certs. As far as a degree goes, it really depends on who you are. I have no degree but that hasnt stopped me from becomming successful, and I have no plans on going back to get mine anytime soon. A degree is a fancy, expensive cert. You could possibly use it to justify a higher salary or it may be the tie-breaker when deciding who to hire, but by itself it wont get you shit.

[spahkle]

So your saying getting certifed in that isn't worth getting? My teacher has been in the business for 15 years and is certified in everything and has a book that he wrote for ccna. he said that there are plenty of good paying jobs out there and that he has a couple of clients looking for MCSEs and he said when Microsoft first started the MCSE Certification, his students were droping out of class because they were getting 60k a year jobs with only passing 1 or 2 tests that only had 20 questions, and the tests were really easy, so everyone got certified and but when they went out to work they didn't know what they were doing and companys started to pay less cuz the market was flooded with MCSEs. Now the tests are harder and those people with certifications from a while back were not schooled in windows server 2k3. I plan to get a job work for a 1-3 years then go back to college to get my bachlors of computer science in computer animation

You may want to start with an English Composition class. If I wrote up proposals, engineering specs, or system audits like this, I'd be laughed out of my fscking job.

My first cert was MCSE 'back in the day' (when patches were something you applied when shit was broken... no, seriously). Anymore, that cert is more of an expected attribute for entry level weenies, junior sysadmins (who aren't allowed to go in the server room, much less touch servers), and desktop jockies. You do have to start somewhere (but honestly, knowing someone who can help you get into a position will be more valuable than the MCSE cert itself).

[mikedc1760]

I am also thinking the same thing. I am going for my Bachelors in Network Communication Management and beginning to think I made a bad choice. I am only 18 but I am still worried about getting a job after I get out of college. My school helps me get a job after I graduate but I don't know if its going to become a well paying job overtime. I don't mean to sound better than any one but I don't want to be working a regular dead end help desk. What do you think?

[TheCotMan]

What do you think?

I think the economy has been slowly picking up as people with no real desire to be in tech are leaving tech. Perhaps in 3 more years, tech sector will be doing well-- but not like before the pre-dot-com-implosion where IPO were offered like TP for my bunghole.

[lucifex]

I've found that certs and experience are both useful for getting interviews. HR folks are more likely to be impressed by certs than your average technical hiring manager, who looks mostly at your experience. Either way, what will land you a job is your technical ability and confidence in an interview (technical or otherwise). If you know your shit and can prove it in a conversation with a decision maker, that's what gets you the position.

I have a handful of certs, and I won't lie, it helps, but not in the way that you think. When a friend of a friend has a problem, my friend can say "Yeah, I know a guy who can do exactly what you want, he's been doing this for XX years and has X,Y,Z certs." That gets me an interview, but it's my technical expertise and self-confidence (which are products of my experience) that gets me the job.

As far as degress and such, being right out of college with a bachelor's will almost always lose to someone with a year or two of job experience. Having a degree (as far as I can tell) helps later in your career, where you're more likely to get promotions, especially into management.

[mikedc1760]

Ok I understand your points but do you think what I am doing now is a good decision? I am not doubting myself, I am just reassuring myself. Thanks for the positive feedback.

[atripes]

I admit that I have been trolling this thread for its wonderful feedback. Thanks for the "straight-from-the-hip" responses.

[Knoppix]

MCSE is DOA without Exp......

hmm, reading this kinda pisses me off... Alot of the replys where dead on as for a good reply.. But let me also give my free 2 cents.

As an MCSE Instructor at our local Adult Education center i tell my students whom ask the same questions. WITH OUT the "HANDS-ON" exp... your DOA....

Hears where even I am at.
Im now 28, 29 in Dec,.. 15 years behind me in the field. And no Cirts besides MCSE.
NOT EVEN A+. Where i am F*cked is... I dropped out of HS at age of 16. Lied on my State Teachers application just to get the contract and im now "stuck".
Stuck without my GED, or a JOB. Or real JOB.... Our field is flooded with techs and I myself have the Past Exp but the MCSE is getting old... And again brought up.. Its an Entry level Cirt....

I have been talking to my wife JUST this past week about going back to the books and getting my GED so i, like you can follow the $$$$$ Game. Sure I teach MCSE at $25.00 Per hour but its a Contracted job and could end at any time... NOT to mention that if they really knew about my education they would drop the contract anyways. So FROM a teachers stand point with the EXP behind me... but lacking the education... Im screwed too.... Depending on where you live, the market could be FULL of techies fighting for that 1 job at $20.00 Per hour.

- My 2 cents.
15 years EXP, But missing the Papers.... - Im in the boat with you... dude...

[Voltage Spike]

I dropped out of HS at age of 16.

Really? You could have fooled me as you seem to have years of formal education under your belt.

I'm sorry, but "Cirts"? The mistake wasn't even on the right hand... (Well, technically it was the right hand, but it wasn't the correct one.)

You seem very eager to participate, but I (and probably others) would appreciate it if you took a little more care when crafting your posts.

Ignoring the above, I found it interesting to read what someone on the other side of the educational experience (or lack thereof) feels. We tend to justify our own decisions, so I'm glad to hear more than "you should do $x because I did and I'm doing well".

[Clp727]

This is a really good thread. I decided over a year ago to make a career change from being a state and nationally certified machinist, to move into an IT career. I have only worked for two companies since I graduated from high school in '86'. I got off my rear and went to a local college. I picked up a hand full of certs and graduated the year long IT coarse (no degree). I got a job with a bank that participates in tax refund loans. It was a contract job. Eight months later, I found myself back at that same machine shop. I decided to run a computer repair add in the local paper to kinda keep my self in the IT loop. My little repair jobs yield about 1-2 repairs a week.
To make a long story short... I kept sending out resumes. Finally, I landed a fulltime job! On Dec. 16 I will be providing network and computer support for a Cardiovascular medical office in Kentucky. I will be one of 4 in thier IT staff (including the IT supervisor). The network has about two hundred nodes within the main office and there are seven hospitals that are tied into the network.
I got lucky! I plan on getting back into school to get the needed degrees for future use.
I think if people want to get into any IT career they should do it because they love what they do. Dont do it for the money, do it because you like it.

[Floydr47]

The MCSE is a start. Everyone has to start somewhere, it doesn't matter what you do in life. With an MCSE and a help desk job you are starting to gain the experiecnce necessary to begin climbing the corporate ladder. A McJob is the start of a career, you don't have to stay in a McJob, but you can get some good work experience there and develop a work history. I am thinking that you are fairly young, possibly attending school full time...have you considered trying to find an internship? That is another way to develop "hands on" experience that can be used to fill in the blanks of a resume. Just my thoughts...I will return to lurking now.