Ai vs. Programmed response, your thoughts?

[LosT]

So I am curious what the DC crowd thinks about some things-

At what point do you (not google, your own thoughts) think that a 'grouping' of pre-programmed responses becomes "intelligent" (as in A.I.)-

A determined response does not constitute 'intelligent' behavior to some people, yet it can often appear as 'intelligence' if complex enough.

In your opinion what makes us anything more than a predetermined response to our environment based on past experience?

Just curious.

LosT

[bascule]

You seem to be getting into free will vs. determinism here, which is of course quite a can of worms.

I'm a compatibilist, I see free will as a concept that can exist even if its operation is deterministic. I see it as all fundamentally rooted in the operation of life, which uses an observe/anticipate/react process.

Because we are able to make predictions about the future based on our observations, and then act upon them, we alter our predicted outcomes and can thus act to avoid undesired future possibilities. To me that's the fundamental basis of intelligence, the ability to analyze information and predict future outcomes.

[allentrace]

You seem to be getting into free will vs. determinism here, which is of course quite a can of worms.

I'm a compatibilist, I see free will as a concept that can exist even if its operation is deterministic. I see it as all fundamentally rooted in the operation of life, which uses an observe/anticipate/react process.

Because we are able to make predictions about the future based on our observations, and then act upon them, we alter our predicted outcomes and can thus act to avoid undesired future possibilities. To me that's the fundamental basis of intelligence, the ability to analyze information and predict future outcomes.

you can sum up these two paragraphs in one word which would be Humanism.

[TheCotMan]

In your opinion what makes us anything more than a predetermined response to our environment based on past experience?

What makes us different is found in the incorrect implicit assumption stated above, IMO. Our responses to stimuli are not [always] predetermined. Humans have a capacity to exceed our programming [not act in a deterministic way.] We are the realization of self-modifying code, plus-plus.

The idea that we are only a sum of our experiences is a subscription to the "blank slate" theory which has been out of fashion for quite some time.

There have been studies of identical twins separated at birth where some conclusions and observations were noted. This results suggested that 70% of who we are is genetic while only 30% is from evironment.

Then there are complications with "artificial experiences" (those gained through dreams, drugs, or medical conditions) and the impact they have on how we operate.

Medication, and injury to the brain can also alter how we think, and alter our responses, and these are not experiences either.

Differences between Human Brains and AI is also echoed when you compare DNA to nearly any programming language...
People can live with half a brain (proof ;-), but half a CPU breaks a computer.
Flipping just one bit in an instruction can easily kill a program, but switching a base-pair in a section of DNA can still lead to a fully functional DNA strand and there is an extremely good chance that flipped base pair can be repaired [if the change does not make sense.]

[LosT]

Part of what made me start thinking about this was the ability to create a small robot that could function as a particular insect; behaviors, etc...it would appear that the bot is 'intelligence' (in as much as you assume an insect is 'intelligent')-

I wasn't trying to go the free will angle...but I guess you ultimately end up there....

And since we *can* program self-modifying code, and place such code in a bot programmed to act exactly like an insect, or simple animal, at what point is it taken out of the realm of programmed response and truly becomes what *you* would consider A.I. ?

The BEAM robotics guys are trying to mimic insects in robots with ANALOG circuits, which truly is simply a response to environment- however they can build on the pieces to get some really complex behavior....

*shrug* I was just thinkin' ; )

LosT

[TheCotMan]

*shrug* I was just thinkin' ; )

One of the most interesting applications of simple AI is swam intelligence. Build many small systems that operate on very simple principles and also work together to make a larger system. (Consider how various "Sim" games (Sim City for example) model the complex issue of urban decay by applying very simple rules.)

There was a book I read many ages ago on AI, and classifications of it. Such a robot, as the one you describe, would meet at least one of those levels of AI. :-)

Some of the more complicated issues, which are being addressed now to different degrees:
A system that understand complex abstraction and can explain a collection of statements in another way, demonstrating its understaning:
"John and Jennifer were going to Tim's Birthday Party. John was asked by Jennifer about the wrapped package John was carrying. Jennifer wonderdered if >he< would like the gift."

*We* can understand and assume that the wrapped package is probably a gift. Gifts go to people having birthdays (in this culture.) The "he" is a pronoun that legally would refer to John (last male name) but logically refers to Tim since it is Tim's Birthday. There is a great deal of complexity in the above, and we can make many conclusions about the story, and ask many questions. There is more to this item, but it is one example. :-)

A system that can recognize a complex math problem, and find an original soltion/proof to that problem that was not encoded in its original programming.
Been done to limited extent. The system is given a problem to solve, and a collection of tools to solve it, but the solution is really part of the programming, not created from the programming.

I thought your Q was on theory, not a competition. :-)

Sorry about that.

[LosT]

Was on theory, brought on while thinking about a project....

And the swarm mind is exactly the type of thing I was thinking about....

LosT

[TheCotMan]

And the swarm mind is exactly the type of thing I was thinking about....

Very cool area. Lots of potential for problem solving.