Hacker Jeopardy/Leetest Link/Trivia Contest/Whatever

[bascule]

I'd personally commit to helping improve this contest, and I have about four years experience with various state and national contests including the National Science Bowl, National Academic Championship, and Panasonic Academic Challenge. It'd be nice to have a faster paced format, along with more beer and boobies.

So, bottom line, I'd really like to know how to get involved in this...

[hackajar]

Talk to lil_freak about leetest link

[TheCotMan]

It'd be nice to have a faster paced format, along with more beer and boobies.

heh heh.
"Faster" and "more beer and boobies"?
Is that possible?

[nulltone]

So, bottom line, I'd really like to know how to get involved in this...

I already contact bascule privately, but to others who are interested in helping with the Defcon 13 gameshow, feel free to private message me on the forum for more information.

Also, if people are wondering why there hasn't been an official gameshow announcement yet, it is because we're still making some decisions involving format. Sit tight. :]

[hackajar]

I already contact bascule privately, but to others who are interested in helping with the Defcon 13 gameshow, feel free to private message me on the forum for more information.

Also, if people are wondering why there hasn't been an official gameshow announcement yet, it is because we're still making some decisions involving format. Sit tight. :]

Your hair!!! It appears to be .... managed! wow! (Is your mom still hot? Or was that Civ's Mom?)

[Gadsden]

If it could be done without getting the place raided, I would love to see the Social Engineering contest come back....

[TheCotMan]

If it could be done without getting the place raided, I would love to see the Social Engineering contest come back....

In the past, social engineering contests have not been too popular. The first one I remember was sort of like a skit. People from the audience play the con, the mark, made suggestions about the setting and judged each attempt.

Later it moved to using a phone. There were promises of "real live social engineering" where contestant would telephone people in states that had laws where only one party need know the conversation was being recorded, to try to make is legal for the audience to eavesdrop on the phone calls. [This one had the biggest turnout and had at least one place where people laughed and applauded.]

However, somebody warned the organizers of this game that there were other laws at issue WRT fraud or something else (I don't remember.) As a result, this groups had to change the whole game around at the last minute, and it was less than fun.

Another year it was scheduled, but did not even happen.

I think I have been to at least 3, but no more than 5 DefCon social engineering contests. It is hard to remember how many, because they sort of all blend together.

If someone runs this contest, I have some suggestions that might be helpful-- based on seeing what did not work before.

[Adrenaline]

Your hair!!! It appears to be .... managed! wow! (Is your mom still hot? Or was that Civ's Mom?)

It was his his mom, and last I heard, she's still hot

[hackajar]

OMG!!!1!! Super cool, ASL!!!1!!!1!!! Got pics!!!

OK, J/k but not about the pics!!!1!!

/drunk midnight typing

[dYn4mic]

As social eng. is a major security problem.. some might go as far to say the biggest...
a contest would be intresting and importiant. I havn't gone to a defcon or *con that has hosted one... but I have audio from the 5th HOPE panel (that included kevin mitnick? )
(from h2k2: http://www.h2k.net/panels.html#social seems they've had a "panel" since '94, where they do live phone calls... as TheCotMan stated has been popular.)
also:
(from a google cache: "Sunday, July 11, 2004 --Social Engineering panel ends--
The social engineering panel ended not too long ago. It entailed Emmannuel, Chesire Cat, Bernie S, and some guy dressed up as Santa Clause socialing a taco bell into not using the cash register for 5 minutes. They also called up a Blockbuster and socialed personal information."
(both of those are slightly unimpressive i think for "hope" given the speakers)
Could we have something similar... not a contest per say...but a 'panel' ?? (get some defcon celeb's and/or speakers up there... some alcohol... thats always a good combo)
The problem with this contest is obviously legal issues, which are difficult to difuse as most here know. But another problem with a contest such as this... a "social engineering contest" is the fact that its hard to trust the contest is legit.
Now sure "we would never have already arranged tricks and people acting" yet it seems as if the social eng. contest could be one big social engineering project.
It seems inhearently flawed in this way, I guess 'faith' is all we can have. (or should I say "HOPE")

Maybe we could do something that has a Social Engineering context? Hidden or not (some might say just join the scavenger hunt)...

But my problems with the scavenger hunt are despite how much fun it is and the stories that result and the kinship of your team.... It just takes too much of your time. I think this keeps a lot of people from partisipating... No.. sadly I don't speak from direct experiance... but It seems like a weekend commitment (esp. if you want to win...) and thats just taking away too much of the defcon experance I enjoy and obviously value.

Could we create kinda scavenger hunt for information? Something involving Las Vegas obviously... If we just lay out the information to obtain... and leave it up to contest participents to decide how to obtain it. Is defcon as an organisation free of legal action?
Or does defcon staff just want to avoid this nightmare all together, dispite the benifits and enjoyment.

(I enjoyed hacker jep. but I think its time to find something new... leetest link was alright.. but I think it needs to get redesined or we need to think up something else)

[TheCotMan]

I havn't gone to a defcon or *con that has hosted one... but I have audio from the 5th HOPE panel (that included kevin mitnick? )
(from h2k2: http://www.h2k.net/panels.html#social seems they've had a "panel" since '94, where they do live phone calls... as TheCotMan stated has been popular.)

Ah! I remember the other reason why they had to cancel the phone-based SE contest... Issues of "one party" vs "two party" states and the right to record (or allow others to listen to) a conversation for which they were not a part.
There are legal issues on notifying people about being recorded. A few states allow just one person in a conversation to know they are being recorded while other states require two or more parties to know.
Most of the legal stuff I have read suggests this has to do with the rules of the state where the call originates, but even this can be a minefield as its inclusion in a court case may depend upon the state for which it is needed as evidence.

How to get around this? Someone has argued that those notices at the beginning of calls to some businesses like, "Your call may be recorded... [for quality assurance, .*]," as being *permission* (ambiguous meaning of "may") for the customer to also record the conversation [for their own assurance.] (A Link to this: " the very first thing their machine said was, 'This call may be recorded.' So - I recorded it." I do not know the legal implicatons of this, but it is a hack-ish solution. :-)

Could we have something similar... not a contest per say...but a 'panel' ?? (get some defcon celeb's and/or speakers up there... some alcohol... thats always a good combo)

We were just talking about this on #dc-forums the other day. Siviak had some good ideas. (Sorry, man, it had to be said. ;-) [Several people were involved in the conversation and had good ideas. Maybe they will comment here too.]

Maybe we could do something that has a Social Engineering context? Hidden or not (some might say just join the scavenger hunt)...

This was an idea put forward too. The scavenger hunt is the most SE-related contest that we have at DC.

Could we create kinda scavenger hunt for information? Something involving Las Vegas obviously... If we just lay out the information to obtain... and leave it up to contest participents to decide how to obtain it. Is defcon as an organisation free of legal action?
Or does defcon staff just want to avoid this nightmare all together, dispite the benifits and enjoyment.

Good ideas for anyone who might want to run a new SE contest. Maybe if the tasks were not illegal, get them on film and then piece together a collection of successes and failures for a 1 hour time-slot.

[astcell]

Sometimes folks help the SE themselves. For instance if you hand me a fresh glass of milk and say, "Smell this and let me know if it is bad" then it WILL be bad in my mind,because I ph34r bad milk, and it's cheap enoguh to replace.

Tell folks that as of August 1 the new laws will let casinos up the odds on slot machines. Folks will use them less because it is easy to believe, then hotels would have to lower the odds to offset the unfounded rumor.

But I suppose that is more playing on concerns than real SE.

[Adrenaline]

perhaps there will be more SE related stuff in the scavhunt this year, we'll have to see ;)

[astcell]

perhaps there will be more SE related stuff in the scavhunt this year, we'll have to see ;)

Maybe you could SE it. :-)

[Adrenaline]

really wouldnt have to, but when were putting things together this year we'll discuss it and various possibilities....:)