Announcement

**Mr. Ed** · June 21, 2005, 09:47

The goal of the contest is simple: to achieve the greatest possible
connect distance between two 802.11b/g stations through innovative
engineering and antenna design.

I thought the goal of the contest was to whore yourself out to as many sponsors and media agencies as possible in order to make a name for yourselves.

**Second** · June 21, 2005, 10:15

Originally posted by Mr. Ed

I thought the goal of the contest was to whore yourself out to as many sponsors and media agencies as possible in order to make a name for yourselves.

.....good first post

**converge** · June 21, 2005, 17:43

Originally posted by russ

Contest staff are also, for a limited time, seeking additional contest
sponsors. Simply do a Google search for "Defcon Wifi Shootout" to see the
coverage this event has received in the past!

Originally posted by Mr. Ed

I thought the goal of the contest was to whore yourself ...

/shrug ... note to self: remember back to the first year. remember back to last year. do math.

**slaphappy** · June 25, 2005, 21:37

Wow, you guys are just like turds in the punch bowl! What is this, the Bevis and Butthead show? I've always thought the Wifi Shootout was pretty cool (and, from the ovation the winners got last year, so most folks at Defcon). Who CARES if they get corporate sponsors? Why NOT?? The contest idea is a fun idea, the contest teams seem to be having a good time, so, what is your problem? Why SHOULDN'T winners get good prizes for their hard work? WHY NOT?

Yours sound more like the words of those arrogant, elitist, snobbish, "oh look, I'm a *hacker*" pricks that have come to typify all that is bad about Defcon. Or, maybe you're one of those self-appointed "anti-corporate" crusader bozos.

Either way, get a life.

**astcell** · June 25, 2005, 21:50

THey get more corporate sponsors than all of Nascar, it just looks a little lopsided at the awards when the prize donators are mentioned on and on and on...

**TheCotMan** · June 25, 2005, 23:14

Originally posted by slaphappy

Wow, you guys are just like turds in the punch bowl!

Heh-heh. Umm. Poop!

What is this, the Bevis and Butthead show?

Heh-heh, heh-heh, hrm. Oh yeah? Are you threatening me? I AM COT-HOLIO!

Who CARES if they get corporate sponsors?

Heh. Reading people's responses to which you are replying should allow you to answer your own question.

Why NOT??

Some have provided their reasons on these forums. Search, and ye shall find!

The contest idea is a fun idea, the contest teams seem to be having a good time, so, what is your problem? Why SHOULDN'T winners get good prizes for their hard work? WHY NOT?

Okay. You bring up the very heart of the issue as I see it:
Does sponsorship to get better prizes motivate people to provide entries that are more similar to what is considered the submission of a hacker?
People I consider hackers, do hackish things for the pure joy of it... if they get paid for their work, that's even better, but their motivation is not the pay. They would be doing their work as hobbies, or for minimum wage if necessary.
For me, the question then becomes:
"Is the 'cost' of sponsorship worth the incentive it provides to hackers?"
I say no. My experience is hackers will hack reguardless of prize-- they will hack when something interests them. A prize is no incentive, but recognition from their peers sometimes is.

But hey! I am not a hacker. I'm a newbie, so what do I know?

Yours sound more like the words of those arrogant, elitist, snobbish, "oh look, I'm a *hacker*" pricks that have come to typify all that is bad about Defcon. Or, maybe you're one of those self-appointed "anti-corporate" crusader bozos.

I'm one of the anti-corporate bozos, but I was not self-appointed, I was elected through committe of imaginary friends.

**converge** · June 26, 2005, 14:05

Right.

If the prizes get any larger, it might inspire me to write a business plan for assembling a corporate team to drive a bigger truck with a bigger dish and build a bigger tower to set a bigger record, in the middle of a desert where no one really gives a fuck anyways.

And yes.. TheCotMan was elected. I partially blame my imaginary friend for voting for him in the first place, but the real underlying problem lies with the imaginary caucus that believed he would make an excellent addition to the Arrogant, Elitest, Snobbish, 'look at me I'm a hacker' Prick Organization of America, Inc. (http://aeslamiahpooainc.com)

**russ** · June 27, 2005, 07:17

I'm not sure you'll actually see any responses from SlapHappy. That account was created by "someone" on the very day the response was made and there have been no other responses on the forums to date. So as far as I can tell, it's someone that wants to say something but doesn't want everyone to know who they really are.

Anyway, I posted the information as it was given to me. It was a popular contest last year, but has the distinct impression of being whored out. So the comments made by SlapHappy seem ironic to me since he's telling us we're being elitist by trying to maintain "contests for contests sake" versus "contests for bigger and better prizes".

Hackers do it because they love it. Not because they're going to get $1000 worth of cash and prizes.

-Russ

**converge** · June 27, 2005, 17:55

Appearantly I'm too late on the business end:
http://www.wifiworldrecord.com/spon_us.html ... maybe my jump to conclusions mat will work better.

OTOH, maybe I should pool my cash and sponsor them to learn a better technique than the center tag... oh wait.. it was dreamweaver that worked that miracle out for them.

**wifi-shootout** · June 29, 2005, 20:34

OK, so, I get a tip, "You might want to see what's being said about the Wifi Shootout contest on the Defcon forums." I had asked Russ if he could get the contest announced under a new category, which he graciously did (thanks, Russ!). I was glad it happened, I left it at that and went back to work.

I don't know if my tipster was slaphappy; I didn't ask, but, I'm glad he let me know that I should look in, because you grouchy curmudgeons cannot go unanswered. And, I really don't see how your "detective" work on slaphappy proves much. Lots
of people lurk around forums, and never post until they see something about which they wish to speak. Big deal. It doesn't say anything about his comments, and at least he TRIED. After being slammed by you vultures, I don't blame him (or her) for not wanting to waste his time by posting to THIS kind of negative crowd again.

So you think that the Wifi Shootout "whores" itself out, or that I "whore" myself out, and that having lots of good sponsors to provide excellent prizes to contest winners is somehow WRONG? HOGWASH!! I'm damn proud of our sponsors, and proud of the hard work that contest staff puts in to *getting* those sponsors, and I'm damn glad that we can get so much swag to give away! Good work deserves its good reward, good rewards stimulate innovation and competition, and I intend to make that reward as good as possible. If you don't get it, then, you just don't get it. Sure, hackers do it for the fun of it, and winning cool prizes is ALSO FUN.

The first definition that popped up for "whore" was "to corrupt by lewd intercourse." You wanna know how I "whore" myself out for this contest? I contact potential sponsors, tell them about the contest, and they say yes or no. That's IT. There's no corruption or anything else going on. Also, I must not be making much of a "name" for myself, because when I call, I usually get something like, "Dave WHO?!? The Deaf Mom Boot Out Contest? What's that?" So, you wanna accuse us of whoredom? Say it to my face, you chickenshit, instead of hiding behind some screen name.

And I'm appalled that converge feels motivated to disrespect a bunch of teenagers because they used Dreamweaver to build a web page. That would be like me insulting him for getting that info by clicking on "View/PageSource," instead using some more arcane, "leet" way. That's pretty lame.

So, if you don't like how we run the contest, fine, don't like it. That's no excuse for you to insult people you don't even know!

I, too, will not be back to regularly joust with the holier-than-thou crowd, as I've got *real* work to do.

To the rest of you, I say, "Have a great Defcon! Enter the contest, win a prize"

Dave Moore, Founder
Defcon Wifi Shootout Contest

**noid** · June 29, 2005, 21:49

Originally posted by wifi-shootout

I, too, will not be back to regularly joust with the holier-than-thou crowd, as I've got *real* work to do.

As a person who puts in 50-60 hour weeks, runs a DCG meeting, organizes two hacker conferences, is active in the local community, works with search and rescue, AND still finds time to be an active and contributing member of the Defcon forums, I have three words for you : Fuck. You. Pal.

Enjoy your real work. Those frys wont cook themselves.

**converge** · June 29, 2005, 22:01

dectionary.com -

whore ( P ) Pronunciation Key (hôr, hr)
n.
1) A prostitute.
2) A person considered sexually promiscuous.
3) A person considered as having compromised principles for personal gain.

spam ( P ) Pronunciation Key (spm)
n.
1) Unsolicited e-mail, often of a commercial nature, sent indiscriminately to multiple mailing lists, individuals, or newsgroups; junk e-mail.
2) Posting content to a public forum exclusively to support or promote without participating in that community outside of self-promotion

Thanks for the visit ...
( we now return you to 'Hiding Behind Your Screen Names', the alternative argument to discredit being served on a public forum )

**TheCotMan** · June 29, 2005, 23:05

... It doesn't say anything about his comments, and at least he TRIED.

Let's see He/She...
* TRIED to call people turds.
* TRIED to describe this as a Beavis and Butthead Show.
* TRIED to Ask a question for which an answer was evident (Who cares...)

I believe I tried to address the only item that was presented in his post that had some marginal seblance of a premise to an argument.

After being slammed by you vultures

In order to be a vulture and live, there should be a corpse from which to pick carrion. This contest is not dead is it? The 1 post user is not dead, right? and you are not dead, correct?

I don't blame him (or her) for not wanting to waste his time by posting to THIS kind of negative crowd again.

This is where an observant and wise person would take several things into consideration.

If one person expresses negative opinion, they're a kook. Two people could be a conspiracy, but you note there is a crowd of people with negative comments.

The wise person would avoid a reactionary response, and instead consider costs...

Which is better? Have a "negative crowd" of people complaining about your contest, spreading their opinions to others to make a "famous" contest "infamous" or use the comments to make your contest better? The opinions stated here are golden to a person who desires to make a great contest... FEEDBACK. Sure, it is a bit brutal, but perhaps you can use the complaints to make a more widely accepted contest with an award cremony that brings support from people in the DefCon crowd instead of condemnation.

So you think that the Wifi Shootout "whores" itself out, or that I "whore" myself out, and that having lots of good sponsors to provide excellent prizes to contest winners is somehow WRONG?

Not wrong. Wrong is a value judgement that is entirely subjective.
"Inconsistent with the DefCon experience," is more on target.
Contest have been historically run by people with love for a contest; people with more pride in the technology/project/contest than the work they did to get sponsors.

HOGWASH!! I'm damn proud of our sponsors, and proud of the hard work that contest staff puts in to *getting* those sponsors

Ok. That is your right.

So, you wanna accuse us of whoredom? Say it to my face, you chickenshit, instead of hiding behind some screen name.

You seem angry. Would you like a take a chill pill and think things over? This kind of escalation is seldom productive. Resorting to requests like this make it seem like you, "wanna fight," because we all know might makes right--- but does not make correct.
Consider it like this: What can be done in person that cannot be done online? Physical intimidation, and physical violence. That is bad karma, dude; don't go there.

And I'm appalled that converge feels motivated to disrespect a bunch of teenagers because they used Dreamweaver to build a web page. That would be like me insulting him for getting that info by clicking on "View/PageSource," instead using some more arcane, "leet" way. That's pretty lame.

Looks like you are getting a bit negative here too. He is entitled to his opinion just like you are entitled to yours.

So, if you don't like how we run the contest, fine, don't like it. That's no excuse for you to insult people you don't even know!

There is a difference between excuse and rights. You are correct, that is it not an excuse, but to express an opinion is a right. Not liking how a contest is run is the cause to push somone to assert their rights to complain and state their opinions.

I, too, will not be back to regularly joust with the holier-than-thou crowd, as I've got *real* work to do.

Sad. You have an opportunity to confront people on these forums and understand why people do not like the contest so you can make it better, but you choose not to do so.

Dave Moore, Founder
Defcon Wifi Shootout Contest

TheCotMan
AssHat wearing, clueless newbie wasting too much disk space

**theprez98** · June 30, 2005, 06:34

Originally posted by wifi-shootout

I, too, will not be back to regularly joust with the holier-than-thou crowd, as I've got *real* work to do.

That's too bad, the fun was just beginning to start.

Announcement

Defcon Wifi Shootout Contest

Defcon Wifi Shootout Contest

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