"i'm letting you off with a warning"

[astcell]

Some states now are saying that cops need to stop ten people at random per shift. They call it Security. We are back to the question, if it catches a bad guy is it something we want to give up?

[Gadsden]

Some states now are saying that cops need to stop ten people at random per shift. They call it Security. We are back to the question, if it catches a bad guy is it something we want to give up?

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." --Ben Franklin

I much rather deal with "bad" people eroding my rights in the name of evil than "good" people eroding my rights in the name of safety... it is much easier to shoot the previous.

[TheCotMan]

Wanting to sue doesn't make me a FUCKTARD, it just makes me more like Stella Liebeck.

Wanting to sue is not the issue. Wishing/hoping for the officer to attack/beat someone SO lawsuit can proceed is the issue.

[Voltage Spike]

Wanting to sue doesn't make me a FUCKTARD, it just makes me more like Stella Liebeck.

I'm sorry, but I have to comment...

How is this even remotely similar? If you were like Stella Liebeck, then you would sue the attacking officer in order to recover medical expenses. So you would get beaten, pay out of pocket for hospitlzation, and then sue to recover the expenses so you could, what ... say you were beaten by a police officer for free as opposed to paying for it?

I could see if maybe you thought police brutality was somehow out of control in this country and you believed that a high-profile case could reform the situation, but that doesn't appear to be what you are thinking...

[Quiet]

just a quick question for my friends who have ties to law enforcement. when an officer concludes a roadside stop with the garden variety "warning" about this or that minor violation and then requests that you correct something in the future, how often (if ever) is this traffic stop and the notes of what the officer instructed entered into one's LEIN record?

It depends on department policy. Was this a state, city or county peace officer? The fact that he stoped you was noted by dispatch/communication and the peace officer will have to log this in his daily log. Daily log goes to watch commander who sends it to admin, which files it away.

tonight i was pulled over for some B.S. about my lisence plate being "hard to see" due to a dim bulb, etc etc. (basically end-of-month shenanigans by a very young cop who has quota coming down on his head like a load of bricks, methinks)

i would have let this sort of thing slide (and he was very polite and only issued me a warning) except for the fact that in the rear of my truck there were some ammo cans and other surplus storage hardware visible. i had to endure a short slew of questions concerning what these items were, what was in them (i opted not to answer that) etc etc etc. the whole time i'm thinking "come on, guy... it's like 1 AM, my g/f and i just want to get to our house (which was about 3 tenths of a mile down the road), i'm clearly not drunk, i have no wants and no warrants, i wasn't speeding, can you just knock off the bullshit and let me go?!"

Did the peace officer give you a "fix-it ticket" (Citation that instructs you to repair/replace what was defective.)? If so, then it was entered into a database. If it was just verbal, then at most the peace officer may (depending on departmental policy & how "gung-ho" he/she is) have filled out a FI card. If the officer has to do it per departmental policy the FI card gets filed. Otherwise, the FI card gets put away with the officer's notes as a future reference.

Do note that, making traffic stops for "bullshit" reasons (dim/broken tail light, failing to use turn signal, etc.) is often a way for peace officers to pull you over just to check you out. This tactic is often done to gang members/drug dealers. If the officer does not find anything illegal, then the subject is often let go with a verbal warning to fix the "bullshit" defect. Most often the subject does not fix the "bullshit" defect and the peace officers will use the same thing to pull over the subject again at a later time. This tactic is taught in most SoCal LE academies.

while i would have normally checked the bulbs in my rear wiring rig, after all this shit i just feel like ignoring the issue out of spite and cynicism. how likely, if at all, is it that at some traffic stop in the distant future some officer is going to say "i see that your rear plate is less than 100% visible. didn't Officer O'Flannery instruct you to address that way back in august?"

Don't take chances get the "bullshit" fixed.

are "warnings" entered into any database or do they typically have a lifetime that doesn't extend beyond the roadside?

Again this depends on deaprtmental policy.

Too bad he didn't attack you, you could have sued him for excessive force.

Dumbass.

[astcell]

Hmmm we have this thread and a thread about police breaking up a rave. In both cases I see people whining about what the police do. I am just about ready to close both threads and move them to fucktard hall.

If you whine about the police doing a bad job, become a cop and do a better job or shut up.

If you whine about the laws being restrictive, vote, run for office, or shut up.

The courts and juries will, 99% of the time, side with written laws if they were obviously broken. It is the "iffy" stuff that usually goes to court. District Attorney's will drop cases they do not believe they can win.

If you have a lifestype that attracts police, you may wish to take a good hard look in a mirror. Maybe it's your roach clip that got the cop's attention in the first place. Maybe your POS car is a danger to others on the road. Maybe you are still in your rebelious phase of teen life but since you are 26 you have to deal with the police instead of mom and dad.

Maybe a cop pulled you over and you did nothing. But you no doubt fit a profile of those who do something. IBM code writers don't drive vans with painted flowers on them, have long hair and play the guitar. If one does, he fits a different profile.

Super secret law enforcement advice on how to not go to jai: Do not break the law!

Sheesh.

[Deviant Ollam]

Do note that, making traffic stops for "bullshit" reasons (dim/broken tail light, failing to use turn signal, etc.) is often a way for peace officers to pull you over just to check you out.

yeah, and that's what we in a free society call intrusion upon civil liberties. if i'm not clearly and blatantly doing anything wrong, i don't really care if an officer wants to "just check me out." he can go jump in a lake, because without justifiable probable cause he's not entitled to detain and search me. technically, in the situation you describe, the officer doesn't even have reasonable suspicion to make a brief terry stop... so he or she just pulls a reason out of their ass. it's funny, but a guy once told me this was a free country.

This tactic is often done to gang members/drug dealers. If the officer does not find anything illegal, then the subject is often let go with a verbal warning to fix the "bullshit" defect. Most often the subject does not fix the "bullshit" defect and the peace officers will use the same thing to pull over the subject again at a later time. This tactic is taught in most SoCal LE academies.

well color me tickled pink that fabrication of evidence is taught at police academies in order to facilitate detaining, questioning, and potentially searching law-abiding citizens whenever the notion strikes an officer to do so. i realize that keeping a watchful eye out for suspicious behavior is part of an officer's routine... but brief and custodial detaining of indivudals shouldn't be done on phony pretense... be up front about reasons and evidence and just do the job within the law, that's my feeling on the matter. i'm not a cop, however, and therefore i'm not speaking from a position of total authority on the subject.

Don't take chances get the "bullshit" fixed.

thanks for the advice, but i'll run my life and you run yours. and, as was said above, there's nothing to fix since the whole matter was bogus... a dim bulb? please, i wouldn't even need a public defender to throw that one out of court. it's not worth my time, money, and effort to go to the store, buy a new bulb, take the light housing apart, and replace what is a perfectly functional light... i've got better things to do with my time than fritter with made-up tasks that a cop pulled out of thin air as a pretense to snoop around the vehicle of someone driving late at night.

[Deviant Ollam]

Hmmm we have this thread and a thread about police breaking up a rave. In both cases I see people whining about what the police do. I am just about ready to close both threads and move them to fucktard hall.

i honestly started this thread in order to solicit advice concerning police procedure from experts in that field. it's unfortunate that it got sidetracked somewhat. i wasn't certain whether it belonged in "got questions" or "/dev/nul" since while many here in this community have knowledge in this area, it wasn't totally a technology question.

[astcell]

i honestly started this thread in order to solicit advice concerning police procedure from experts in that field.

Well I guess as long as there are some people who feel "the man" is keeping them down, they will voice up.

[Deviant Ollam]

Well I guess as long as there are some people who feel "the man" is keeping them down, they will voice up.

heh... the man keeps everyone down. it's not his fault, it's just his innate nature.

don't remember who in their party said it... "i'm pro-everything and ready to overthrow everything"

[Voltage Spike]

If you whine about the police doing a bad job, become a cop and do a better job or shut up.

If you whine about the laws being restrictive, vote, run for office, or shut up.

We don't normally disagree, but I hope you made this comment out of frustration. It isn't that those in a position of power are bad people, but it is the nature of the beast. If those in power are doing something wrong, why should we simply "shut up"? Why do we celebrate the freedom of speech if we cannot use that speech to comment on the ills of society? I would love it if I could become a part of every system and profession and fix things from the inside, but surely you can recognize that this isn't a feasible solution.

Trust me, I understand that it is a tough situation. As a law-abiding citizen, I want to be left alone and not harassed by the government that I'm supporting. However, it is (probably?) better for society if we can stop crimes before they happen rather than simply punish people after the fact. Those last two sentences do not work well together since the latter often assumes I'm guilty even if I haven't done anything wrong.

In short, it's a very difficult situation but refusing to talk about it isn't going to make things better anytime soon.

[TheCotMan]

This thread and the other one mentinoed by astcell are examples of how discussions of politics can lead to more emotional postings that push people's buttons.

There was a time when there was a section on the forums called "politics and religion." It seemed to be a very busy section, with lots of opinion, passion, and emotion. It may have lead to people disliking each other due to disagreements in politics-- people who might ordinarily hang out at DefCon if it were not for their disagreement(s.)

As many people know now, that section was closed, and locked away, and now is gone.

I really enjoy talking politics or religion, and they are topics that nearly everyone has something they want to say something about, but there is a cost when we discuss these things. These costs are why I try to avoid these topics here.

Disagreements can become heated, and people can get angry. When people are angry, they sometimes say/write things that are harmful.

[Deviant Ollam]

I really enjoy talking politics or religion, and they are topics that nearly everyone has something they want to say something about, but there is a cost when we discuss these things. ... Disagreements can become heated, and people can get angry. When people are angry, they sometimes say/write things that are harmful.

i agree 110% with everything you say here. i immensely enjoy discussions which are political but i have seen such discussions take a turn for the worse when people speak from emotion and not reason.

These costs are why I try to avoid these topics here.

perhaps a wise action... but it's the sort of thing that begs the question "then where would one opt to discuss politics with the people of this community?" that's the key thing... the people of this community. a large number of the people who hang out on the internet are retarted asshats. i don't need to go searching for other online forums in order to relate with them... i cross paths with such people enough in my offline real life. i love this community because you all are people who i have come to respect greatly and consider friends. we are pretty good at self-policing on these forums and that keeps out the people who can't put a sentence together with two hands and a set of instructions in multiple languages. i could go and post in other political forums... but then i would be deprived of responses from my friends here, since i doubt a mass migration to another site would be likely. (and i've never been one to maintain much allegiance to multiple online forums at the same time. i just don't have the time or stamina to follow threads of discussion on a half a dozen different online communities at once)

There was a time when there was a section on the forums called "politics and religion." It seemed to be a very busy section, with lots of opinion, passion, and emotion. ... As many people know now, that section was closed, and locked away, and now is gone.

that, in my opinion, is a terribly sad thing. i've always been of the mindset that all online forums deserve a "hot topics" or "tinderbox" area. if people can't manage to behave themselves during a heated discussion, then whatever forum discipline comes down on them is their own affair... we're all (mostly) adults here and learning to speak respectfully and properly to one another (even during heated discussions) is a valuable skill that people should have in the real world. to me, trying to squelch debate in the interest of promoting harmony doesn't exactly achieve that end... it just sweeps discord under the rug and leaves everyone with the vaugely stuffy and uncomfortable air of faux-civility that is common at a work-related party or a church group meeting... where everyone knows the people with whom they agree and disagree, but no one says anything for fear of causing a scene. i would love to hear input from anyone else with opinions about the return of the "politics and religion" forum area.

It may have lead to people disliking each other due to disagreements in politics-- people who might ordinarily hang out at DefCon if it were not for their disagreement(s.)

this is possibly going to sound like an overly-harsh blanket statement... but geez, if a discussion in an online forum can get a person's knickers in such a twist that they would be unwilling to socialize in the same vicinity as certain people in real life, then such people are likely to be too tightly wound for an event like defcon. just my $0.02.

[Quiet]

yeah, and that's what we in a free society call intrusion upon civil liberties. if i'm not clearly and blatantly doing anything wrong, i don't really care if an officer wants to "just check me out." he can go jump in a lake, because without justifiable probable cause he's not entitled to detain and search me. technically, in the situation you describe, the officer doesn't even have reasonable suspicion to make a brief terry stop... so he or she just pulls a reason out of their ass. it's funny, but a guy once told me this was a free country.

well color me tickled pink that fabrication of evidence is taught at police academies in order to facilitate detaining, questioning, and potentially searching law-abiding citizens whenever the notion strikes an officer to do so. i realize that keeping a watchful eye out for suspicious behavior is part of an officer's routine... but brief and custodial detaining of indivudals shouldn't be done on phony pretense... be up front about reasons and evidence and just do the job within the law, that's my feeling on the matter. i'm not a cop, however, and therefore i'm not speaking from a position of total authority on the subject.

You may think the reason you get pulled over is "bullshit", but it is a violation covered under the vehicle code. That is the justification for pulling you over. It may be an infractionand something that most people think is "bullshit", but it still aganist the vehicle code.

Peace officers can not make up something in order to legally pull you over. It must be an actual violation.

A peace officer can not search your vehicle or person on a whim. They must have probable cause. They can legally perform a "pat-down" search of your person for weapons without cause. If they ask you permission to search your vehicle and you give it to them, then it's not illegal since you said it is okay. You can deny them permission to search your vehicle.

Unfortunately, a large portion of the LE community has a "us versus them" mentality. With the "them" catagory broken down to suspects and victims. If you don't fall in the "us" catagory then you are either a suspect or a victim.

So, when you get pulled over for "bullshit" and you feel like the officer "just wants to check you out", it might be because he/she is trying to classify you as a potential suspect or victim.

Since, most suspects are felons. LE does not need a reason to search that felon's vehicle or person. Because once you are a felon, you lose your rights.

If you feel that you were wronged during a contact with a peace officer, file a compliant. Believe it or not, compliants do get investigated.

[Voltage Spike]

we are pretty good at self-policing on these forums

hehe, now there's a true statement. I'd say 95% of the arguments on here end in "I'll buy you a brew".

Oh, and I also have no problems with disagreements and/or slightly-heated arguments. In fact, I'd encourage them ... it gives fuel to HighWizard's potential gaming sessions.