Words fail me...

[bascule]

...perhaps I'll go for IDIOCY

http://www.woai.com/news/local/story...5-5C2336D6171C

All but 400 of the 3,000 students at San Antonio Warren High School either didn't show up or walked out of class today due to threats against the school posted on a popular teen web site, 1200 WOAI news reported today.

"About mid morning today we were able to confirm that the web site 'MySpace-dot-com' allowed several students to post threatening messages on it's web site, messages threatening Warren High School," Pascual Gonzales of the Northside School District said. "This message said two boys were planning to show up at school with guns."

Gonzalez said extra police were on hand, and teachers and administrators were in a 'high state of anxiety.'

"The vast majority of students either didn't come to school, or came to school and went home out of fear."

Administrators say the students who posted the messages on the web site have been identified and will face felony charges, including making terroristic threats and disruption of a high school campus. Officials say all four are 'current students at Warren High School.

Officials would not release details of the threats, which had been removed from the web site as of noon today, but one source said the threat promised 'shooting and killing' at Warren. No specific students or teachers were singled out, officials said.

Gonzales said Northside officials will also hold MySpace-dot-com "accountable."

"It just seems to me that if you put up a public web site, and you allow students, teeangers, minors to post their thoughts and ideas, and not monitor it in an adult manner, you are asking for trouble," Gonzales said. "This particular web site has been a pain for all Bexar County schools for a long time now, and it just seems that the owners of MySpace-dot-com should be held accountable."

He said a decision about whether to file a lawsuit will be made by district lawyers.
Gonzales said the threats were not made from inside the school. He says MySpace-dot-com is blocked on all school computers throughout the Northside district. He declined to identify the students, or say whether they are boys or girls.

"If they are not under arrest now, they will be soon," he said.

Gonzales said any students who missed school today will be allowed an excused absence with a parent's note, but he expects everybody to be back in class tomorrow.

I've never seen such rampant paranoia about the free exchange of ideas in my life...

[Ridirich]

Ok, damn...umm....wait.

Yea, damn sums it up good.

Just...damn.

Fucking monitoring kids in an adult manner? How about I monitor Gonzolaz' lack of a sex life in an adult manner too?

Thing is, people keep shifting the blame, if they wanna blame someone, this is the order in which I see it:

1) Children who posted the threats. They are the direct problem.

2) Parents not monitoring and/or educating their kids. They are an indirect problem.

3) School for not educating the kids. They are an indirect problem.

This goes back to me, as a gamer, where parents blame videogames for kid's conduct. Yeah, I guess I am responsible for mass murder too, huh?

Where the hell were those assholes when their kids were playing a game they were not supposed to be playing to begin with? I mean if you are underage for a movie, you will be refused admittance You should have to show ID to buy a videogame. People should take shit more seriously, stop stomping on people when it is their own damn fault.

Sorry for the tangent, but it seems to fit to me. People blame computers, the internet, hell they blame the gun companies for making a gun that has been made for 200 years before that and was not a problem....but never take responsibility for their own damn actions.

Oh yeah, and I am a parent who watches my god damned kids, unlike these morons.

[Voltage Spike]

Fucking monitoring kids in an adult manner?

You should probably consider his perspective, though: he is a school official where their job is to ... monitor kids. In other words, he is asking the same expectations of myspace.com that are placed on the Northside School District. I don't agree(*), but I can certainly appreciate why his mindset is that way.

(*) Besides being a completely anonymous and free service without the resources to police everything posted, myspace.com isn't, as far as I know, open to minors and therefore takes the position that everyone is an adult.

I mean if you are underage for a movie, you will be refused admittance You should have to show ID to buy a videogame.

Why, though? We can't prove negative side effects from the exposure of young people to sex and violence, but we restrict it anyway. Again, I don't agree with the restriction, but I can see the utility of limiting a minor's rights in order to aid the parent.

How about this: why don't we limit the sale of candy as another item that most parents don't want their children buying? After all, it is an item sold purely for pleasure that can result in negative, short-term consequences.

Oh yeah, and I am a parent who watches my god damned kids, unlike these morons.

I'd be curious what you think of Steven D. Levitt's studies on child rearing. In short, he finds that, statistically, what you do as a parent has very little effect on your child (although how you live your own life does have a significant effect). The implication is that our genetic disposition is an overwhelming factor, and that being exposed to media ("good" or "bad") is more of a weak catalyst than an easily-identified cause.

[Ridirich]

I have considered his perspective, but to not accept responsibility for his own actions is a large fault of his. Blaming a company for their free service is stupid. Should we blame libraries when they give out martial arts books and someone gets their ass kicked, or when a kid picks up a C++ manual and begins learning, and accidently puts a computer in an echo loop?

Passing the blame is the world's pass-time. No one wants to take the fall for their own faults. Hence "Pass the buck"

How about they sue with ISP that allowed the kids to connect to that site to begin with? How about they sue the makers of the computers used as well?

It is just stupid.

I don't feel the kids should be monitored by the internet. I think the parents should monitor their kids. I think the school should take the time to educate the kids.

The US right now has a high rating of obese kids. They send homework to the kids houses and the kids become depressed or or simply fat from eating, sleeping and doing school. Want to give kids homework? Have them volunteer community service, have them do something that does not include sitting down and doing MORE school. School is an 8 hour job, not including commute. When you get home do you want to work?

As for your point about the candy. I disagree with that. People need to realize, that they DO teach their kids by action. Part of that is the language they use.
If you don't want your kid to curse, then don't do it yourself. Don't want your kids to grow up extremely fast, desensitized by violence, then don't show it.

I, for one, do not believe that games cause violence. I DO believe it makes kids grow up too fast. Our society right now has 9 year olds fucking, and 10 year olds pregnant. That just is not right, even by standards set 3000 years ago.

I don't know who Steven Levitt is, but I will research that. "90% of statistics are made up...". Thing is, when you mix stats with parenting, it does not mix. Each child is differant, they need differant things. Some need more attention than others, some need more discipline than others, so fourth. I do not believe that my genetic disposition has anything to do with kids to begin with, except with their body itself. Their attitude will not be "decided" for them by their genes.

I do lead by example. I do my best not to curse, but growing up on Navy bases....and I do correct myself when I foul up. I DO play games when they are around, but limit my time on the violent ones. Furthermore, I let my kids know that when they reach the ESRB age, they too, can play it, but not until then.

Music, Movies, Games...they are all types of input. The human mind is like a computer. I believe if you put shit in, you should expect shit to pop out. Candy has nothing to do with that.

[skroo]

1) Children who posted the threats. They are the direct problem.

2) Parents not monitoring and/or educating their kids. They are an indirect problem.

3) School for not educating the kids. They are an indirect problem.

And let's not forget:

4) The 2600 students who took the out given to them to just up and skip school for a day.

I honestly doubt that anyone was taking this 'threat' seriously. More likely than not, the administration's pissed-off that 85% of the student body figured it was as good an excuse as any to not come in - and it's not like it's unheard of for high schoolers to bunk off at the drop of a hat.

The principal looks like an ass because a sizeable chunk of the kids didn't come in, and now he has to answer to the district. As much as I dislike Myspace, Livejournal, etc., he's just trying to find a convenient scapegoat rather than dealing with the actual problem.

[TheCotMan]

I'd be curious what you think of Steven D. Levitt's studies on child rearing. In short, he finds that, statistically, what you do as a parent has very little effect on your child (although how you live your own life does have a significant effect). The implication is that our genetic disposition is an overwhelming factor, and that being exposed to media ("good" or "bad") is more of a weak catalyst than an easily-identified cause.

Studies of identical twins separated at birth and raised in different households/families, seem to agree with this. Based on questions relating to food liked/disliked, favorite colors, actions, habits, common phrases, tendency to be aggressive/passive, attitude, problem resolution, and tendencies observed, one study concluded that from 65-70% of "who we are" appears to be based on our genetics, while only 30-35% seems to be from our environment.
When you consider a large part of our identity is forumed from birth through to age 5, and you weigh the time a parent actualy spends with their child (controlling, or restricting their environment) you quickly see that any single parent's role on influecning a child could easily be less than 10% of the whole through to age 5.

As always, finding are up to debate, but to me, the results seem reasonable. "Blank slate" is dead.

[klepto]

I think with all the rampant tagging and other types of defacement on school property physically, these administrators should be glad it didn't happen on physical property and furthermore a website not in their control.

If it were on the forums on their school intranet then it would probably have more justification but in this case, I'm just dissapointed it even had to go this far, the justice system is not perfect but it should be able to work better than this crap.

[Voltage Spike]

No one wants to take the fall for their own faults.

I certainly wasn't disagreeing with you on that point. Although now that I think about, I'm not sure how much Gonzalez is at fault. While he was blaming others, it might be hard to think of it as shifting blame.

They send homework to the kids houses and the kids become depressed or or simply fat from eating, sleeping and doing school.

Weird side topic, but there are schools attempting to change this. It becomes exceedingly difficult, though, when the federal government is trying to wrest local control away from the schools.

As for your point about the candy. I disagree with that.

Your argument doesn't follow. How do you determine what rights kids have and which ones they don't? Why is candy "good" and a violent video game "bad"?

Our society right now has 9 year olds fucking, and 10 year olds pregnant. That just is not right, even by standards set 3000 years ago.

I don't have the evidence to back me up at the moment, but I would argue the exact opposite. We are not expecting enough maturity out of children today, and I think this article is an example of the consequences. (Of course, getting pregnant at a young age is also immature, but I am fairly certain that our species has been obsessed with sex for quite some time.)


You say:

Each child is differant, they need differant things.

And then you follow with:

I let my kids know that when they reach the ESRB age, they too, can play it, but not until then.

So every child is different, but you let some standards committee determine the content that is acceptable for your children.

[astcell]

It's a new world. When I was a kid I could use spare time in class to draw bloody pictures, to play "war", to pretend my finger was a gun and play cops and robbers. It was called growing up.

Nowadays one kid brings a little green army man to school and the teacher freaks out because it has a little 1" long plastic rifle and it represents war. So the kid goes into counseling, all school lockers are searched, parents are called, trauma counselors come in for the other kids....

How about all those Christmas carols that were reworded to the berevement of the schools? "Joy to the World, the school burned down, and all the teachers died..." yea like anyone can sing that today. The government would cordon off 5 blocks in search of a bomb.

Gimme a break.

[Ridirich]

I certainly wasn't disagreeing with you on that point. Although now that I think about, I'm not sure how much Gonzalez is at fault. While he was blaming others, it might be hard to think of it as shifting blame.

I am looking at the problem in the direct/indirect responsibility quotent. He falls neatly into the "School not educating the kids".

Besides....he blocked the site at all the school computers. I would imagine at first there were only a few kids going to this site.

What do you do when someone says not to? Doesn't it make it more tempting?

Weird side topic, but there are schools attempting to change this. It becomes exceedingly difficult, though, when the federal government is trying to wrest local control away from the schools.

Not really bro. Again, it comes down to his responsibility. He, as the principal, is responsible for the well-being of those kids while they are under his care. Part of that is not overwhelming them with work.

I am all for federal running all public schools and giving parents more rights. As long as federal does not say what private schools have to do, no one's rights are invaded. Think on it. No matter what grade a kid is in, they can always find the same class topic at another school. Would most definitly make it easier for the students who recently moved in too.

Your argument doesn't follow. How do you determine what rights kids have and which ones they don't? Why is candy "good" and a violent video game "bad"?

I determine that by hands on experiance. Child rearing is not simular to hacking, in that math usually does not work to train a child what they need to know. For example, the variable that the child will walk into the street if I do not hold their hand vs the variable they will. No one takes the chance because humans don't neatly fall into equasions when it comes to our actions.

Only simularities it has to hacking, is that you have to come up with other ways to solve the problem.

Like anything given too much, candy can be a bad thing. However it is a great reward, as it should be.

Violence in music, movies and games is not acceptable due to the problems I have seen it cause.

Here's an example. Power Rangers. How many kids do you know that watch the power rangers and won't kick you in the nuts or try to? I don't know any. They are copying the behavior. I think this is a far cry from picking up a gun and killing someone just because they see it, but it is still a pain in the ass....and obviously something that needs discouragement.

I don't have the evidence to back me up at the moment, but I would argue the exact opposite. We are not expecting enough maturity out of children today, and I think this article is an example of the consequences. (Of course, getting pregnant at a young age is also immature, but I am fairly certain that our species has been obsessed with sex for quite some time.)

So every child is different, but you let some standards committee determine the content that is acceptable for your children.

[/quote]

Every child is differant in their needs and how fast they learn, yes. A standards commitee sees all the graphic detail of a game/movie and determines the rating due to the content of that media. It then not only gives a rating, but says why.

Usually this involves graphic violence, drugs, strong language...so fourth. Why shouldn't I listen to someone who has seen the movie? Someone who looks for this stuff, as I may miss it, getting into the plot while my kid takes in every second of gore?

I am an EMT, it does not bother me...I need to take into account it does bother others. Why do I set these boundries? Because I respect my kids, and in return they show respect to me....the majority of the time anyway.

To learn how to respect, it must be first shown to you.