Announcement

**pr0zac0x2a** · December 15, 2005, 07:51

Originally posted by Deviant Ollam

yes, i know that federal rules actually have declared all machine guns manufactured post-1983 or something to be banned from civilian ownership. still, a guy can dream.

I was under the impression that the assault rifle ban was dropped / timed out a few months back? Did it get redrafted/passed when I wasn't paying attention?

-zac

**kallahar** · December 15, 2005, 08:56

For California, our state laws are more restrictive than the federal. :( They seem to think that anyone who owns a gun will be a criminal and go shooting at schools.

I guess they really had to crack down after all those M60 drive by's in the 80's, eh? ;)

**noid** · December 15, 2005, 09:29

Ok, the Assault Weapons Ban has nothing to do with machine guns. I'm so tired of people thinking that the AWB was about machine guns, on both the pro and anti gun side. Here's your 2 paragraph synopsis of Federal gun law.

The National Firearms Act of 1934 (NFA) classified certain types of weapons based on their characteristics. Weapon types defined under the NFA are subject to government regulation. Weapon types are broken down into the following : Machine Guns, Silencers, Destructive Devices, Short Barreled Rifles/Shotguns, and 'Any Other Weapons' (pen guns, cane guns, etc). Any weapon that is manufactured that falls into one of those catagories has to be registered with the ATF at the time of its creation. If that weapon is transfered to another owner, the ATF has to be contacted and a transfer is initiated through them (on a Form 3, 4 or 5, but thats out of scope for this). This, obviously, is subject to state and local laws. Just because the ATF has provisions to transfer a registered machine gun between two parties, if one of them lives in a state that has banned MG ownership, that over rules anything else.

That was it as far as machine gun legislation for a long time, the system worked as well as most gun control laws do. Law abiding citizens who were never the problem in the first place continued to register NFA weapons and criminals continued to make them illegally. Then in 86 new legislation came along that basically said 'from this point forward, no civillian ownership of machine guns made after this date'. So, this breaks machine guns into three catagories: transferable, pre-86 dealer sample, and post-86 dealer sample. A transferable machine gun is a machine gun thats been in private possession and was manufactured before the 86 ban. If you live in a MG legal state, and can obtain the needed law enforcement sign off, you can posess this gun. Transferable machine guns are ridiculously priced, a friend purchased an old police turn in M16A2 for 12K about a year ago and was getting a deal. Pre-86 dealer samples are machine guns that were in the hands of licensed dealers and manufacturers before the 86 ban. These guns are still for sale, but can only be sold to other dealers, manufacturers, and law enforcement. The nifty thing about pre-86 samples is that when the dealer or manufacturer give up their licensing they can keep the MGs (provided, again, that their state allows for civillian ownership of MGs). So, think of Pre-86 samples as transferables for dealers. Post-86 samples are MGs made after the 86 ban. Post-86 samples are super cheap and readily available. This is because they can only be purchaced by dealers, manufacturers, and law enforcement. Also, if a dealer or manufacturer gives up their license, they have to get those assets out of their posession, they cannot keep them. This is why a new, in box, P-90 is only 1200 bucks.

That pretty much covers machine gun law in the US. If anyone wants me to get mor specific about anything, lemme know.

**robman** · December 16, 2005, 05:31

Well that new mg might have been nice, but don't forget about the metal storm. I wonder what it would take for the government to allow one of those? :)

www.metalstorm.com if you haven't heard

sorry if this is already posted, proxy is acting up and search is returning a server error.

**Ridirich** · December 16, 2005, 08:26

http://www.vectorarms.com/instructions/how_to_own.html

Also known as a "Class C Clearance" to some Marines I have talked to.

Basicly you can own a machine gun in any state.

**Deviant Ollam** · December 16, 2005, 08:49

Originally posted by Ridirich

Basicly you can own a machine gun in any state.

yeah, unless (like noid and i both said) you live somewhere that bans them by state law (plenty of states) and unless the gun was manufactured after 1986.

**noid** · December 16, 2005, 10:42

Originally posted by Ridirich

http://www.vectorarms.com/instructions/how_to_own.html

Also known as a "Class C Clearance" to some Marines I have talked to.

Basicly you can own a machine gun in any state.

No, you cant. The Fed makes provisions for MG ownership, but state law may say otherwise. Second bullet point down:

*You must live in a state that allows Class 3 weapons

For example here in Washington civilians cannot own Machine Guns or Short Barreled Rifles/Shotguns, as state law forbids it. There's also a bit of 'defacto' gun control in here as well:

*You must obtain a signature from your local Chief Law Enforcement Officer verifying that you have no felony indictments pending against you, and are mentally stable.

Unlike 'Shall Issue' laws for concealed weapons permits, where they HAVE to give it to you unless theres a good reason not to, this portion of the process is up to the opinion of the CLEO in your area.

Another example, here in WA we can own silencers, AOWs, and DDs. However if you live in Seattle, good luck getting the CLEO to sign off (Old Sheriff wont do it, new sheriff seems to agree, and the Police Chief of Seattle was the keynote speaker at the Million Mom March in Seattle last year..that one should explain itself). Some states have exemptions for corporations, and in the case of a corporation you do not need to get CLEO signoff, but you still have to abide by the states laws. This is the portion of the NFA that most people have the biggest issue with, as it allows defacto gun control on the part of law enforcement. If your state is machine gun friendly, but your local top cop isnt, they can thwart your attempt at ownership by simply refusing to sign your Form-4 (ATF form for transfering an NFA asset from a dealer/manufacturer to a civillian/corp). This was challenged in court a few years back by Kel Whelan from Gemtech but the judge ultimately sided with the ATF.

**bascule** · December 16, 2005, 16:42

As for me, I'm just looking at purchasing a gun cooler than my .30-06

I mean, my .30-06 is great for uhh, elk hunting and all, but I haven't exactly done that since I was 16, heh...

Looking at an SKS Carbine...

**Gadsden** · December 16, 2005, 21:22

Originally posted by bascule

As for me, I'm just looking at purchasing a gun cooler than my .30-06

I mean, my .30-06 is great for uhh, elk hunting and all, but I haven't exactly done that since I was 16, heh...

Looking at an SKS Carbine...

I have owned 2 SKS's... I truly love mine. Never jam, easy to work on and find parts for, and has tons of aftermarket stuff. Bang for the buck ya can't beat 'em.

**Thorn** · December 16, 2005, 21:28

My son loves his SKS. I'm an HK man, myself.

**Ridirich** · December 16, 2005, 22:12

Originally posted by bascule

As for me, I'm just looking at purchasing a gun cooler than my .30-06

I mean, my .30-06 is great for uhh, elk hunting and all, but I haven't exactly done that since I was 16, heh...

Looking at an SKS Carbine...

Are you aware that a 30.06 is an awesome and versatile weapon unto itself? You can fire armor piercing rounds, WP, FMJ, hollow points, "specials" and many other munitions from it, as well as make it semi-automatic. I prefer semi to fully anyway, though I do like the 3 round burst.

**bascule** · December 19, 2005, 11:20

Originally posted by Ridirich

Are you aware that a 30.06 is an awesome and versatile weapon unto itself? You can fire armor piercing rounds, WP, FMJ, hollow points, "specials" and many other munitions from it, as well as make it semi-automatic. I prefer semi to fully anyway, though I do like the 3 round burst.

I just used it for elk hunting

**erehwon** · December 22, 2005, 19:14

Well you could buy a semi-auto M60E3 $8000.00, but there's no sales to California...

The M60E3, like the M60, may be employed as either an assault or unit support weapon. The new configuration has several advantages. In the assault, the twin pistol grips provide better control while firing on the move. Quickly deployable bipod legs permit instantaneous transition to the prone position for covering fire. The combination of the receiver mounted bipod legs and the carrying handle attached to the barrel greatly facilitate rapid changes of hot barrels. For support fire delivered from prepared position, the M122 tripod with traversing and elevating mechanism is available. The M60E3 has been adopted by the U.S. Navy, Air Force and Marine Corps and saw extensive use during Operation Desert Storm.

**astcell** · December 22, 2005, 19:24

In 14 days I get to qualify with the M4, M9, M240, M249, and 50 cal.

Thank you fellow taxpayers! I will try to bring a camera to the range.

Announcement

damn my state's gun laws... i want one of these!

damn my state's gun laws... i want one of these!

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