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Deviant Ollam · January 26, 2006, 21:22

Originally posted by Doc-LPCON

I would really like to get some input on what works and what doesn't for LPCON in the next 30 days. If you have any thoughts on what you would like to see included in the Lock Picking contest, please let me know.

i'm certain that folks like renderman, the toool-usa crew, and myself can offer a few ideas and suggestions based on seeing how things have worked in the past... what went well, what needed fine-tuning, etc.

Originally posted by Doc-LPCON

Right now, we still have the two primary events planned

a couple of thoughts that arise in my mind...

(1) do you have the timed event hardware from previous years? it worked really well and was a great setup. (especially last year with the introduction of the time clocks wired right into the doorknobs)

(2) i've always felt that the obstacle course event wound up being low-participation and low-enjoyment for a lot of people. it basically works out to be a challenge event for the best and brightest pickers. i like the variety that it provides, but i've always imagined that such a challenge could be made more popular and rewarding in the following way...

setup a large array of "lockers" (like cubicles 6" on each side) that have padlocks, deadbolts, or other whatnot securing them. (some of them wildly easy, others more difficult) behind each door would be small prize cards... if someone pops the door open, they win whatever prize is on the card. newbie locks like master combo locks or kwikset deadbolts could have cheap-o prizes like dollar store goodies. medium locks can be worth free shirts or maybe $10 off at a specific vendor table. harder locks get into fun shit like techy swag (like the swissbits we gave out during the shmoo picking talk) and so forth. essentially, this would allow the "obstacle course" to be accessible and rewarding for a larger number of people and it would also become a contest that basically ran itself, at its own pace and without direct intervention by organizers (except for the occasional checking in to replenesh prizes that were claimed when someone popped a door. i would imagine that the easy lockers would be refilled often, the hard ones almost never)

Originally posted by Doc-LPCON

I am also looking for some volunteers to help with the running of the event during the actual activities. There is some time commitment, but you really do get to meet some awesome people during the events.

i'm betting that some of us in Toool-USA would be willing to spend time in the picking area, assisting and giving mini-talks as needed.

this is something i mentioned in another thread, actually. i may not give a lockpicking lecture as an official talk this year (at least not in a speaking track) since so many people have a basic familiarity with the way locks work and since so much learning is very hands-on. i'd like to see the contest area operate the way the picking scene appears at .eu events nowadays. at what the hack there was a "lockpick village" as i understand it... contests went on there, but so did all sorts of learning, Q&A, demonstrations, and so forth. those of us from Toool-USA would be happy (heh, hope they don't mind my speaking for them) to hang out there some of the time to oversee matters and to run things.

maybe we choose a certain time of day when the contest would run (say, around noon or 13:00) and make the general statement that "for one hour prior and two hours after the picking competition heats, Toool members and other picking enthusiasts will be on hand to answer your questions and demonstrate picking for people who want to learn"

just my $0.02 for now. happy to help in any way i can.

btw... you're Doc-LPCON, is that any relation to the dis.org crew? (the folks who branded me at DC10. heh, i woke up with that tagged on me... don't know where or when i got it the night before)

haden · January 28, 2006, 01:48

well im just getting started in the lockpicking area and i belive that deiviant ollams ideas are really great. ill definately be spending a few hours thier listening and working on a few of the locks.

theprez98 · January 28, 2006, 09:03

Originally posted by inoxxs

well im just getting started in the lockpicking area and i belive that deiviant ollams ideas are really great. ill definately be spending a few hours thier listening and working on a few of the locks.

Just a quick plug for Deviant's website. It is a great primer for getting started in lockpicking.

Deviant Ollam · January 28, 2006, 16:25

Originally posted by theprez98

Just a quick plug for Deviant's website. It is a great primer for getting started in lockpicking.

thanks for the kind words. currently, however, the lockpicking section is just my talk slides (and the latest round actually have less information since i had to eliminate certain sections for time)

i hope to have the slides and graphics converted into full, informative lesson pages. all i need is time. (heh, when's the last occasion when any of us had enough of that?) i'll mention when the switch gets made. hopefully it will be by mid-march at the latest.

theprez98 · January 28, 2006, 18:30

Originally posted by Deviant Ollam

thanks for the kind words. currently, however, the lockpicking section is just my talk slides (and the latest round actually have less information since i had to eliminate certain sections for time)

i hope to have the slides and graphics converted into full, informative lesson pages. all i need is time. (heh, when's the last occasion when any of us had enough of that?) i'll mention when the switch gets made. hopefully it will be by mid-march at the latest.

Still though, for those of us with no experience at all, the site is a good start. The graphics are simple to understand and overall I don't feel overloaded.

renderman · January 28, 2006, 23:52

Should the idea of a 'lockpicking' village come to pass, it might be an idea that at 1 or 2 times a day, a talk could be scheduled to explain lockpicking to any newbies in the area.

Not wanting to speak for Deviant, but I'd be willing to be on-hand for a couple mini-lectures/talks/free form discussions (abusing deviants kick ass slides of course).

Justa thought

Doc-LPCON · January 29, 2006, 00:06

Thanks

Great suggestions, keep them coming and I'll see what we can work in.

renderman · February 9, 2006, 23:46

You could always do like my fellow locksport international chapter president and have a catagory for most outragous tool/picking method:

In this video he picks a lock with a Bananna!

http://www.youtube.com/w/Pick-a-lock...?v=TbOajWDg_Ts

Sp8 · February 16, 2006, 10:20

Constructive criticism

I'll start by saying that I'm a big fan of the lpcon. I watched at defcon 12, and participated in 13.

If you've watched or participated then you know that everbody gets up there and goes nuts, raking like they were trying to saw through the key pins with their L-rakes. Now, if that's the technique that they think is going to score them some points, power to 'em. The problem is, last year the contest was setup on a rickety old folding table. Have you ever tried to pick a lock during an earth quake? Me neither, but you get the point.

Idealy, it would be nice if the locks could be on seperate stands altogether, but it really is necessary for the locks to be on a solid surface. I liked the new higher quality locks that were added last con, but they were keyed in a manor that made them rather difficult to rake open. This was complicated by the fact that you couldn't do anything but rake while everybody else worked the lockstand/table like a two-dollar-whore.

You haven't replied to the comment on how much of the old hardware you'll have access to, so I don't know if you're planning on reconstructing the stand, or if you're inheriting the old one. But, you might consider breaking it up into individual sections that could be placed on one man desks. Short of going to that extreme, you would be surprised just how much of a difference it would make if you had a solid surface to quick-grip that lock-stand to. I don't know about anyone else, but I would be willing to pick lying on my stomach, so the stand could be layed on the floor, over holding my pick still and letting the table rake the lock for me.

More food for thought... Somebody should go through each of the locks and find the "sweet spots" before settling on a pin order. Reason is that each lock, like a woman ;), is unique but with similarities. Just because you order the pins all the same, doesn't mean that they'll all open the same. So, it would be cool if we new ahead of time that there wasn't one lock that opened faster than all the others, and another that wouldn't open even if you had the key.

Tip for the obstacle course: lables. And I don't mean in terms of toughness. I'm talking prices. This would be alot easier than trying to rate locks difficulty, but it would alert the new guys (and girls) which locks would be good to start out on, while people are just looking around.

Here's a thought, if a group made their own lock-box and brought it with them, could we get some swag to put in it? Provided that it met with your standards on toughness? This would allow some of the other dc groups to get their names on some stuff and take some of the pressure off of you. If you can't swing the swag, maybe we could do it like a mountain summit. If you don't know what that means, at the summit of most named mountains they keep a little metal box with a pad of paper and a pen in it. When you climb to the summit you get to write your name on the list. We could then publish that list at the end of the con as a way to give props. Oh, and I definately think we should get that schlage everest onto a box with a starter pick set in it. Oh, the sweet irony. :D

Those are my thoughts for the time being. I'd love to know what you liked and what you didn't. Good luck with the planning.

-Sp8

TheCotMan · February 18, 2006, 21:19

Is there an official web page/site for LPCon at Defcon 14 yet?

Previous page:
http://www.securitytribe.com/%7Ekaig...PCONRules.html

But the above include "kai" in the URL, and he has handed the contest over to Doc-LPCon.

TIA

Doc-LPCON · February 20, 2006, 21:31

Not yet, but it is something that I will be working on. I believe I have access to the old info Thanks

Originally posted by TheCotMan

Is there an official web page/site for LPCon at Defcon 14 yet?

Previous page:
http://www.securitytribe.com/%7Ekaig...PCONRules.html

But the above include "kai" in the URL, and he has handed the contest over to Doc-LPCon.

TIA

Kai · February 24, 2006, 12:43

Sp8 & DOC-

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention about the "rickety" tables last year. Those WERE absolutely horrible. The previous years with full size tables seemd to work OK (although still vibration), but those seminar-style (super thin) tables were horrid.

I think part of the problem was the flimsy/bouncy stage that added to the table sway. The problem with stand-alone stands (ugh on the pun), is that they need to be solid and stable. By making them separate, you minimize the available base area. Other's have recommended just letting people "hold the locks", but with hard-wired timing systems, this would not work well.

At the same time, cargo space is a major issue (or at least was for me), so creating a super stable stand and transporting it with all the other gear is difficult, which forced us to rely on hotel furniture in the past.\

Outside of shocks or "inertia dampening fields" between the base (that attaches to the table) and the doorframe, I'm at a loss for anyway to come up with a reasonable solution. I had hoped to have some custom steel cages platforms built for last year, but the cost was way too prohibitive.

Kai · February 24, 2006, 13:14

Oh, and I still like the idea of a mini-event or two like the wifi/lp combo last year.

I also wouldn't mind seeing video footage fo someone trying to pop a slot machine! ;)

Complete with footage of the handcuffing would be humorous.

haden · February 25, 2006, 14:04

wonder if some one might be able to talk the hotel out of a damaged or old machien that we could play around with?

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