crimes that aren't crimes

[theCount]

The "criminalisation" of photography comes grows at the same rate as public paranoia, and the loss of society's innocence. The problems do not only exist when photographing "objects of strategic value", but say, photographing children at play.

In Glasgow's Kelvin Park, I was pulled up by a concerned citizen whilst I was photographing my friend's son (whose parents were present at the time), who started quizzing me about my intentions. In some cases now, it seems that grown man with camera equals pedophile.

On prostitution, a good example would be the localisastion zone in Kramat Tunggak, Jakarta. Before it got closed down, they were running extremely good programmes for the prostitutes: During the day, it was compulsory for them to attend classes, be it literacy and numeracy skills, sewing, or home economics, all geared towards giving them the opportunity to move away from the trade, and there were quite a few success stories.

To ensure attendance, pimps were penalised by having their licence revoked for a week if any of their charges cut class.

Other benefits for the prostitutes include handouts of free condoms, weekly medical checkups, and most importantly (for the prostitutes I interviewed), security. It was a proper community, accepted by a lot of the surrounding community, including even mosque officials.

These benefits were lost along with the closure of Kramat Tunggak, no security, no classes, no checkups, and despite moving into the neighbourhood nearby, no community.

[astcell]

sweet fucking hell, that would definitely make my list of things that should be legalized.

I think they outlawed doing our own alcohol for the same reason we can't do out own abortions. Some people may get others killed based on ignorance or lack of priorities.

But is IS illegal to take photographs of large pieces of art!

Actually there are a few skylines, buildings and even baseball teams which they say canot be photographed for the same reason. However, photographing a copyrighted object is not illegal, but selling the photo will have implications. Let's take this lack of logic one step further:
1. You get a tattoo on your face. Now no one can take your picture with the permission of the tattoo artist.
2. You do your own facial tattoo. You get arrested. The police take your mug shot. You escape. They send pictures of you to all post offices. You sue for copyright infringement.
3. You don't get a facial tattoo. Same scenario as above. Your parents sue for copyright infringement.
4. You draw sidewalk art with a piece of chalk. It gets walked on. You sue for destruction of property and mental anguish.
5. You are the first person wh came up with the word 1337. You need a lawyer.
6. You live in Chicago. Check with the authorities to see if you can write the word "Chicago" on return addresses.

As far as I care, public art is PUBLIC. If it is not public and someone else wants to retain all the rights, they can keep it in their basement or pay the citizens of the city a fee for storing their crap on piblic property. Otherwise I may be tempted to dump by trash on public property too and tell people they canot touch it because of copyrights and trademarks.

What the hell happened to my country.

[Ridirich]

You know...I have been thinking about these 'laws' that don't make sense.

I think helmet/seatbelt laws are up there on that list as well. Speed limits? I can see having them in specific areas to calm traffic down for the residents. Stop signs and such? Needed. Strict laws governing the building of vehicles? Needed. But, is it really needed to arrest and/or ticket one for not wearing a seatbelt? I mean, the seatbelt is meant to 'save' your life in the event of a wreck, right? Isn't it someone's choice if they wish to use this apparatus for that effect? What about bikers? Right now they have to wear helmets in many states. Helmets in a high speed accident 70% of the time or higher do not save a life, and the biker is going to die anyway. What was the point to begin with? Why not make bikers wear seat belts too, just so we can kill more of them? Having no seatbelts on a motercycle saves lives because you need to get off the damn thing when it wrecks so you don't get caught under it.

Getting back to the cars and seatbelts though. I have seen people with neck lacerations from seatbelts as well as severe bruising anywhere from their pelvis all the way up across their bodies to their necks. People who have died due to blood loss CAUSED by the seat belts.

Me personally? I think the law should not exist. It is someone's right to choose if they buckle up or not, not some fat idiot in an office signing laws. I plan on investing in a 4 point harness and never wearing a seatbelt again...until that time, I am stuck using those seat belt pads till I modify my car enough to house the correct seats.

[astcell]

Ridiruch, if you get in a car accident and do not have a seat belt on and you get paralyzed for life, will you accept the disability checks from social security? If so, then that is MY money and I don't want to give it to you, so wear your seat belt. Won't accept the checks? That's fine, thanks. But some government employed caretaker is gonna have to be there to wipe your butt for you, literally, and I don't wanna pay for that either.


I don't know if this is still in effect, but in the early 80s in Germany if you were in an accident and did not have a seat belt on, it was automatically your fault. How's that for motivation?

On a side note, lots of cops don't wear seat belts around town because of the need to haul tail out of a vehicle to go after someone. Seconds count. It is indeed a personal choice but the outcome affects many others.

[Ridirich]

Ast, firstly, thank you for reading my post, I really appreciate it that you paid special attention to the last paragraph. I am sure you noticed I use belt pads, which cover the seatbelt and prevent injury caused by these devices, and am planning on investing in a 4 point harness, which is much safer than the conventional seatbelt.

Oh, and just so you know...I am already disabled, severe asthma(less than 60% lung capacity and the reason I have not come to DC yet, but am still planning to). I have worked since I was 14, and never pulled the disability money out that I am entitled to, plus my father has worked since he was that age and has never pulled out any disability money, even though, currently the US Navy owes him in excess of 300,000 dollars for a medical discharge they never paid him for. I think if I, personally, would get disability, it would not come out of your tax dollars as both my father and I have paid, in both taxes as well as well as the back-money from the USN. I work, I make a life for myself, which is alot more than most people do in my situation and furthermore, more than is expected of me. Then again, you did not have access to my specific situation before this post, did you? I am obviously not the norm.

The sad fact is seatbelts kill, so do airbags. I know. I am an EMT and have seen it for myself. Airbags cause blindness, snap necks, suffocate children/smaller adults and cause major skin problems as well as disfigure faces due to burns caused by the powder used. Seatbelts break ribs, severe necks(the carotid artery is right in the neck, I have seen a 1/2 decapitation caused by a seatbelt with the driver having been in a BMW going roughly 70 mph on a highway and hitting another car) and keep people in burning/flooded/etc. vehicles. These people also claim disability(if they live)...in fact just as many people are injured and get money from either disabilty, welfare or insurance companies that it compareable to if no one used them at all. Furthermore, I have seen people saved by NOT wearing a seatbelt at all. They were shot out the window of their vehicles and only suffered cuts, even though everyone else in the vehicle was injured or dead. These cases are rare, but still bear credence. Furthermore, if these devices were really so wonderful, then how come on buses, specifically school buses, are there no seat belts and air bags behind every seat? Furthermore, are you aware that not many people live to see paralyzation from accidents? That requires a break in the spine. Most accidents cause legs, chest, neck, arms and such to be injured, but not the spine that would need to be broken to give a person paresis.

In the end, I think you missed my point. They are both dumb laws because all mentioned safety devices injure or kill just as much as they save, and niether helmets nor seatbelts save as many lives as we would like to believe. There are many sites on google that mention these facts with actual tests, but I believe it because I have seen it with my own eyes. I think our tax dollars should be better spent on developing a harness of some sort that actually DOES save lives in cars without keeping the driver from escaping the vehicle if need be. Personally, I like the 'jet fighter' 5 point harness, without one going over my nuts. Hence the 4 point harness.

[SlackJaw]

The thing is you two guys are at total opposite ends of the spectrum and the best thing here is to agree to dissagree. I mean Astcell is career military and that's certainly a different mindset than your average civilian, let alone civilian geeks.

There are stats to lend validity to Ridirich's claim that seatbealts can mame, but the lives they save far exceeds this.

It basically comes down to the largest geek motivator - government interference.

Now I know it's a violation here to delve into politics so I won't, I'm just putting in my two cents because I've been in both positions. 8 years military and the rest as a cynical "stick it to the man" type.

The fact is, it's hard to say who will do what in abnormal circumstances. There's a ton of leeches out there on the government dole yet they don't make a dent in the misuse of funds perpetrated by some of our so-called leaders.

I hardly think seatbelts are the fist line of defense for good citizenship and responsible spending.

[TheCotMan]

This one had potential as peripheral to DefCon, and it was given a chance. It touched on crypto, but seems to have gotten stuck in the mud.