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  • Time Required

    What will be the estimated [min/max/average] time you expect to take to complete the challenge- or at least an idea of an order of magnitude of how long this will take?

  • #2
    Along the same lines... What day and time will the event be occuring?
    if it gets me nowhere, I'll go there proud; and I'm gonna go there free.

    Comment


    • #3
      The hope is teams will be able to accomplish the task in a relatively short amount of time- say 1 -3 hours- this depends on two major things:

      1. skill level of the members of the team (I see a WORST case taking about 3 hours, and that is with no experience and just common sense)

      2. number of people/diversity of skills of team members- 3 guys will have an easier time of it than the people who just partner up or fly solo-

      Time table:

      The intent is for teams to get the kits at the same time- namely sometime on the FIRST DAY of CON- I am not sure that this will be possible, and I am looking into the possibility of putting a time-stamp module into the kits to measure elapsed time, rather than absolute time-

      LosT

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      • #4
        The plan is still to release the boxes into the wild mid morning the first day of con.

        LosT

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        • #5
          Originally posted by LosT
          The plan is still to release the boxes into the wild mid morning the first day of con.

          LosT
          Hopefully its not going to be one of those items we will need to hunt for within the con.

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          • #6
            Distribution will be in the contest area.

            LosT

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            • #7
              Re: Time Required

              I have significant work experience as an electrical engineer and
              got my bachelor's and master's degrees in ECE from a top university.

              It's always seemed to me that Def Con was biased toward software
              people and a rather large number of attendees and presenters had
              little or no EE knowledge.

              Even basic high school E&M physics seemed to be lacking.

              In the past, I believe that the net appliance contest did not qualify
              for a black badge. Is that still the case or are black badges going
              to be given out this year?

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              • #8
                Re: Time Required

                Originally posted by woodland
                I have significant work experience as an electrical engineer and got my bachelor's and master's degrees in ECE from a top university.

                It's always seemed to me that Def Con was biased toward software
                people and a rather large number of attendees and presenters had
                little or no EE knowledge.

                Even basic high school E&M physics seemed to be lacking.
                There has been a lack of involvement from hardware people in contests. However, the Defcon Robots competition has been popular. I think an increase in involvement in hardware competitions will increase the popularity of hardware contests and perhaps discussion, too.

                Participation leads to popularity.

                In the past, I believe that the net appliance contest did not qualify
                for a black badge.
                I seem to recall that Lost won a black Badge for his entry in the Hardware contest of Defcon 12.

                Is that still the case or are black badges going to be given out this year?
                http://www.defcon.org/html/defcon-14...ests-info.html
                Originally posted by russ-in-web-page
                Black badges WILL NOT be given as prizes to all contest winners. Period. There is no argument about this. The "cool factor" of winning a black badge is that not everyone has one. Bear that in mind. I do not approve the contests that will receive a black badge, so don't ask. It's a panel of leadership at the conference. We will let you know if your event will be receiving the black badge as a prize. If you don't hear from us, assume you will NOT be getting one.
                I don't remember where I got the impression that many contests leaders/organizers would not know for sure if winners would get black badges until the time of the con.

                If I find out why I am thinking this, I'll add a link here.

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                • #9
                  Re: Time Required

                  Originally posted by woodland
                  I have significant work experience as an electrical engineer and
                  got my bachelor's and master's degrees in ECE from a top university.
                  Some of the best EE engineers I know do not have a formal education. Some of the least talented do. I, like you, would like to see more hardware involvement at Defcon. I even put in a paper to give a 'basics' talk to help people along the way. The problem is that many do not have any hardware experience, but are very experienced coders- I have been working (since DC12) to help people who want to enter hardware contests-

                  The box contest won't be hard for those with even a basic hardware background- but the point of the contest is 1. not to take all of your con time, and 2. to 'test' the Defcon crowd to see how I can make this type of contest evolve over time- The second year of the TCP/IP contest suffered from a lack of promotion/interest/participation- I don't want to see contests like that go away- the mystery box challenge is designed to get people started in hardware contests who may otherwise be intimidated by a TCP/IP build- and it appears to be working, we already have over 10 teams registered for the contest, and no team has fewer than 3 members- that is quite a turnout for a first year of a contest-

                  At DC12 I won a black badge for the embedded device contest- honestly, I didn't expect one- it was an 'unofficial contest'- and I didn't enter just to win a badge, I entered because I love hardware- and for fun, and to share something I had built with the rest of the Defcon community.


                  Originally posted by woodland
                  It's always seemed to me that Def Con was biased toward software
                  people and a rather large number of attendees and presenters had
                  little or no EE knowledge.

                  Even basic high school E&M physics seemed to be lacking.

                  In the past, I believe that the net appliance contest did not qualify
                  for a black badge. Is that still the case or are black badges going
                  to be given out this year?
                  DT has not told me if there will be badges for the box challenge- honestly I don't expect them- this is an unofficial contest, and it is the first year for it. The whole point is just to let some people have some fun.

                  It makes sense that Defcon is 'biased' towards software/networking- but look at the talks for this year (and in years past)- Joe Grand is giving a hardware talk this year, and there have been many, many hardware talks in the past. You want to see more hardware contests? Support the existing ones by entering. Build a net enabled device (we put the rules pretty much wide open this year)- Get some friends together and join the mystery box challenge- The hardware contests would grow with more participation-

                  And on that note: Kudos to the Defcon BOTS people- they work really hard to keep that hardware based contest going- probably one of the most 'attended to' contests at CON-

                  Defcon is what you make it-
                  Have fun, and I'll see you in Vegas...

                  LosT

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                  • #10
                    Re: Time Required

                    I think an immediate problem that comes to mind with hardware is transport. For people travevlling from afar, transporting you electronics safely can be a pain making sure its not damaged/siezed by authority. How do you prove that your hardware isn't a bomb detonator? Especially post 9/11 with people flying into Las Vegas. I know airport security have not been impressed by my standard unmodified Dell laptop before.
                    Software an easily be carried on a CD or just the fundamentals remembered. Ok, this isn't the best arguement, but I'm sure you can see the angle I am coming from.

                    It very hard to demonstrate your hardware or prove your knowledge without having anything physical, whereas software skills can be shared on anyones computer with a relevant compiler, for example. Hardware really needs hands-on experience with the physical items in my mind.

                    Also I understand quite a lot of people would class defcon and related activities as a "hobby". Whilst personally, I don't mind spending money on a hobby or something I feel I will gain from others don't.
                    You can learn some of the software side without having to pay. C is open for anyone to program in, and there are plenty of free compilers out there.
                    Hardware to learn you are probably going to end up buying components which cost money and if you are not really into it you make think twice before paying. At least with software you can give it a try for free usually and then if you dont like it it is only time not money you have wasted.

                    I am a hardware man, so I'm going say hardware is harder (love the pun), so people can't be bothered to learn it properly whereas any idiot can do software ;)
                    Twigman

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                    • #11
                      Re: Time Required

                      Originally posted by Twigman
                      I think an immediate problem that comes to mind with hardware is transport. For people travevlling from afar, transporting you electronics safely can be a pain making sure its not damaged/siezed by authority. How do you prove that your hardware isn't a bomb detonator?

                      A common solution to get around this would be use of a third party carrier such as UPS,Fedex,DHL. You will want to call up the hotel you are staying at and tell them you will be a guest of their hotel and if they will be able to accept packages for you during your stay- most hotels should be accommodating.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Time Required

                        In fact I will be driving to CON this year (rather than fly) because of this very problem. I have hardware with me that I don't think they'll enjoy allowing on a plane, and I don't think shipping it would be a good idea either-

                        That being said, you can start with some hardware cheaply in many ways- there are emulators for man micros out there (for free even)- There are MANY websites dealing with hardware- and with the advent of places like expressPCB, and others, a whole new world of hardware possibilities are opening up to the 'casual user' that until now were only available to businesses-

                        LosT

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