a new twist on stores asking for your zip code... credit card automated checkout

[dYn4mic]

right.. so we're comparing mechanisms, weak vs. weaker and who will win at probability.

I take the approach of neither being very secure and both methods are likely to end up with charges/purchases I didn't intend on. If you walk around with three different purchase implements, one in each pocket, and one of your pockets is going to get picked, but you don't know which one. Which method do you consider ACTUALLY secures your assets more.

'Cause in the event, I doubt I'd just be kicking back and saying.. "Well damn, they got me.. at least I tried by using a four digit pin!"

Good point. Its kinda a bad situation in any way at all... let alone in the hands of a motivated and knowledable attacker...

Also, you could look at which can access more assets.
Plus sometimes the CC/ATM compaines have data mining stuff that will put a 'hold' on your card if your widthdrawling lots of money from a far-away place (like a guy I know recently in japan) or happened to another friend of mine when we were in San Diego.
This seems to be sketchy and unreliable at best... and in some ways im not sure if I'm glad it exists, or worried about their abiltiy to build a profile of my purchases.
(it seems a lot is happening behind the curtan w/ our personal data... Wizards of fort meade they all are)...

[Twigman]

where it gets confusing i think is when banks today start issuing cards that are multi-function. i.e. - a check card that also can be used with a PIN at an ATM.

This works fine in the UK, and I like only haveing to carry round a debit card and a credit card, not a hand ful of cards for the same thing but in different situations...

Credit card: You buy stuff (until you reach your agreed credit limit), at the end of the month you get a bill. You pay off said bill. Repeat.
You *can* use these in most ATMs but you'll pay for it (I get charged 2.5% for a cash advance I believe).

Debit card: This works in ATMs, and shops and everywhere really. You buy stuff/withdraw money. Your bank balance instantly goes down. You have no money in account? Tough, you cant buy your Chessy Doritos (tm).

Everything except ATMs used to be sign for. Now (since 14th Feb was official day) everything is a 4 digit pin. Some place still accept signatures but it is the merchants problem if they are a victim of fraud now.

You either have a credit or debit card* nothing else.

In the UK it is also generally accepted that credit cards are *much* "better" and more consumer friendly. (From a fraud and guarantee point of view).
This is because of all the legislation in place etc.
If I goto www.dodgycheapopcs.com and buy a computer on my debit card the money is instantly out of my account, they can go on a spending spree with my details until my account is empty...very annoying. Probably can get it sorted, but in the mean time all your direct debits and things will bounce and its just a massive hassle.
If I do the same on my credit card they can try, but chances are my credit card company will block it and phone me or something similar. If they do get away with until the end of the month when I get my bill, all I have to do is say "Er nope sorry wasnt me Im not paying that." and the credit card company will go back and retrieve their funds from the merchant.

If you are going on holiday (especially if it is somewhere longhaul and exotic), phone your credit card company before hand and let them know. Then they wont block your card and leave you high and dry on holiday :). I like the fact that my credit card company just keep and eye on it for me.

Also credit cards you dont have to deal with the consiquences of your purcahse until the end of the month and then you can pay it back bit by bit (albeit at a very high interest rate). Some cards give you interest free periods though and there are "rate tarts" that swap to keep on no/low interest.

Credit cards also tend to give you advantges like free travel insurance if you pay for holiday on your card, airmiles, cashback (0.5%) or things like that.

*This isnt strictly true...some banks do ATM only cards, but they are mostly savings only accounts and not massively used. Also people like AmericanExpress have charge cards (credit cards with no limit), but no one has those at all...not really accepted many place anymore since the whole charges thing in the 80s was it?

[astcell]

If a place says they cannot complete my purchase without the zip I will walk out. And legally I can probably walk out with my cart and it is not stealing. A zip is not required legally, though the register programming may demand one.

As for credit cards being more secure than debit, or better... at least when a credit card number is stolen they are using the BANK'S money, not MINE.

[Voltage Spike]

And legally I can probably walk out with my cart and it is not stealing.

I don't believe there is a law stating that a business must accept credit/debit cards. Why wouldn't it be stealing? (Or was this one of those tongue-in-cheek things?)

[TheCotMan]

If a place says they cannot complete my purchase without the zip I will walk out. And legally I can probably walk out with my cart and it is not stealing. A zip is not required legally, though the register programming may demand one.

As for credit cards being more secure than debit, or better... at least when a credit card number is stolen they are using the BANK'S money, not MINE.

As I understand it, the banks (credit card companies) don't take most of the hits when it comes to:
* failed credit card transctions (a per transaction fee may be applied for successful and unsuccessful transactions, payable by the merchant, who increases prices to cover this.)
* items contested by the credit card holder (may take work on the customer's part)
* use of credit cards that are stolen (I'm not as sure about this. If a transaction is authorized, then that is a kind of "ok" from the credit card company service provides they don't have any information on holds for the account. However, it is possible for merchants to "pre-auth" amounts to a card. This is a check for account flags, and a method to partition a chunk from the account's "available balance. I don't know if this pre-auth grants the merchant any funds if a card is later found to be stolen, after the pre-auth, but before the charge is applied.)

Upstream credit service providers (POS equipment, and service) have different contracts and agreements with merchants. My experience with them is limited, but from what I have seen, the merchants are the ones that pay the most for failed transactions.

If this is more common than it is not, then it is in the merchant's interest to include as many extra security points for validation as they can, to discourage abuse at their own stores. They can then choose to convert lack of loss into some combination of profit and lower prices.

[astcell]

I don't believe there is a law stating that a business must accept credit/debit cards. Why wouldn't it be stealing? (Or was this one of those tongue-in-cheek things?)

You offered payment, they refused. Like if the item is 99 cents and you five them a $100 bill and they have no change, legally you get it for free.

[Deviant Ollam]

You offered payment, they refused. Like if the item is 99 cents and you five them a $100 bill and they have no change, legally you get it for free.

heh, while i don't think it actually works that way, i do believe that merchants are not allowed to pick and choose what legal tender they like or don't like. i.e. - if something costs $3.00 and i give them six rolls of pennies, they can complain all they like... but i'm free at that point to leave the store with the product since i've paid for it via negotiable tender.

[Voltage Spike]

if something costs $3.00 and i give them six rolls of pennies, they can complain all they like... but i'm free at that point to leave the store with the product since i've paid for it via negotiable tender.

I think we've had this discussion in the past, but...

I believe that cash is a protected form of payment ... "all debts public of private", as they say. (If they reject your payment, though, I don't think anyone is going to support your "I took the rejected payment and the item with me" stance.)

Note that this is a very different point than them saying they accept a form of payment and then tacking on additional restrictions (ID, PIN, zip, etc.). Just because they put up their "MasterCard" symbol (or whatever) doesn't mean it isn't still their game.

Feel free to let me know how it works out for you, though.

[Twigman]

Well its still their shop isnt it?
They could easily just say
"Sorry private property. Drop that item and leave please. I have withdrawn my offer to sell it to you. The whole contents of your basket is not for sale any longer. "

That wouldnt be illegal. Or they could just close the till and say "Shop opening hours reduced today due to unforseen circumstances...No more sales will be completed (including partially completed ones). Reason: I want to scratch my ass in private".