Ravers

[nulltone]

What do you want to see changed when it comes to Ravers at Defcon. (I dont mean people who like to rave, and are at defcon for computer reasons too..)
I am talking about the people who come to defcon just to party.

[hdra]

It seems sort of stupid to come to defcon just to party when defcon isnt about partying, but about computers. The raver aspect should be reduced.

[simon]

actually defcon is about partying... atleast the three or so years i've been going... it was more a place for hackers and computer dorks to hang out and have a good time... and then pannels are there as 1 form of fun, and the music and what not are there as another...

[simon]

Oh and another thing.... Animated gifs as avitars got to go... seriously =]

[nulltone]

Note: I have nothing against raving. I understand that many people that are into computer security, are also into raving. I am totally cool with that. I am talking about people who attend defcon JUST for the raving and stuff.
Not necissarly raving either, just partying in general.

[bluknight]

The rules have changed...

I have noticed a tendency with some of the long-time Defcon attendees (or former attendees) to believe that the Con has been, or is no longer about, security. A good friend of mine (who has attended all the cons but #2, and has been kicked out for getting in an argument with someone notable with this convention, we won't say who) once told me "Dude.... if you're going to Defcon for a security conference, you're missing the point."

Admittedly, I've only been to 8 and 9, but I realized this past summer that he's right. I only went to one talk... The rest of the time was spent hanging out with people I've wanted to meet, learning cool shit IN THE FIELD, and networking more contacts. Defcon may be a party, but it's a party attended in an interesting place, and attended by interesting people, such as my friends.

So who gives a damn if I only attended one panel? Who cares if I 'blew' $50 bucks for just that one panel? I got to meet some neat people, and I learned more in that one extended weekend than I probably did in the rest of the year.

[viper]

blueknight made a very good point, but so did nulltone.
As far as raving goes, well, its like this. My roomate is a DJ, I love techno (as most hackers do, to an extent) and I help plan 'undergrounds' up in the mountains in my area, and I like to see the raver, techno element at con. I think the rave aspect could be bigger and cooler without detracting from the rest of the con. In this day and age, techo is fairly engaged in the hacker and cyberpunk subcultures, so Keep the rave, even make it bigger and better, but never let it detract from the computer aspect of the con...
and to all the prepubescent aol script kiddies who come to get drunk, thats not what con is all about. Love it or lose it.

[russ]

weed em out?

I'm not totally sure that you COULD weed out the strict ravers. The concept behind Defcon (in MY opinion) is that people with a common interest of hacking, technology and computer security can come and hang out, learn, party, and socialize. Sure, the culture has grown WAY BIGGER than anyone ever expected, but the crux remains the same. Again, I've said it before and I'll say it again, we need some open communication in our culture. Mature exchange of ideas, thoughts, concepts, and predictions.

Defcon is a glue that helps hold the culture together. And I DO think it's lost a little bit of it's focus recently. But it's easily repairable and more importantly, it's WORTH repairing.

I don't think the ravers hurt DefCon. Seems like some of them might be missing the point though.

[J3di]

As a first timer to DC 9, I didn't spend much time listening to the DJs spin, but it was a definate relief to walk into a dark room, listen to pulsing and throbing music and let the brain rest for a little while.

[Grifter]

Ravers, Ravers Everywhere

While I'm not into raving in aspect, and don't see Defcon as a place to go if you just want to dance. I don't think it hurts the con. What better place to have the B&W Ball then in a room full of smoke and lights.

It's the focus on partying that throws me a bit. Sure, Defcon is about getting as drunk as you can and crashing next to a fountain for some people, but I think there is a percentage of individuals(albeit small & shrinking) that still come to the con just to look around and know that they are normal to some extent. That even though they are looked at by those in everyday life as odd because they, as the shirt says, "love a machine" it's nice to know that at least five thousand other people out there share the same passion that you do. As long as those people still keep showing up every year, I think Defcon will be fine.

[Xp0nential]

rave at defcon

Whats different is not the fact that some people go there just to rave. As others said before Defcon is also a place to socialise, make contacts and feel normal.

What most probably changed are the talks themselves. I thought that a lot of talks were not well prepared (Defcon 9) and in a way the logic was lost.
(Some of them of course were good. I personally liked the FX presentation :) )

IF that didn't happen maybe we wouldn't be complaining



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"Everything that's countable doesn't necessarily count. What counts isn't necessarily countable"
Albert Einstein

[cabal]

I, personally, hate raves and ravers. I think they make themselves look like idiots to retarded music. (no offense to any ravers)

[Eustace]

Ravers, Cons, Inexperience.

Excuse me for interupting this thread, Im obviously new here, and though in the past I have been involved in "hacking" (pschaw, hey simon...) I never attended defcon. However, I have attended various "academic" conferences on a variet of topics and I can safely say its more about hanging out in a nice city, networking and drinking a lot thatn it is about who is presenting what--granted there are degrees of this, defon probably more on the party end of things, but cons exist to meet people, people are social creatures, and thus people want to meet others in social environments. Raving (esp since some consider it a staple of "hacker" culture) probably will never die at defcon, get used to it.

Eu

[wuming]

This was only my second year at Defcon but I think I am still going for the main purpose of learning new things and making contacts with others doing research and stuff. I have to admit the parties and people do add a different feel to the con. But all in all I still think that those who are wanting to learn, hack and explore will get some good info from the experience. Hence the phrase "you get out what you put in". Just make sure that we continue getting strong speakers with good topics to talk about and all the parting can take place in the background. Plus when it's up to 110 degrees in the tent a cold beer and a dip in the pool always helps.

[Spua7]

Let em stay. Im not down with the life style but they do add quite a bit of interest. I have to say I agree with wuming on raver and speakers. Next year we should ditch the tent and just move it straight to the pool for the topic. It would be easier to listen wet from the pool than wet from the sweat.