Recently Arrested.

[Rance]

Re: Recently Arrested.

make them "water dirt mud paint sweat blood snow proof."

Because that's what all serial killers need. I mean I sure hate it when I get blood all over my celephone, it makes me cut them even harder.

[liberator]

Re: FBI taps Mafia cell phone mic as eavesdropping tool

Makes me glad that most recent Sony-Ericsson models have physical lens covers, that's for sure.

I guess we all need to start using opaque cell phone condoms Of course, we need a new version that is soundproof as well.

[BonzoESC]

Re: FBI taps Mafia cell phone mic as eavesdropping tool

Also no mention of remotely activating the phone's camera, but in principle that should be doable, at least to take periodic stills and send them back to HQ.

Makes me glad that most recent Sony-Ericsson models have physical lens covers, that's for sure.

[liberator]

FBI taps Mafia cell phone mic as eavesdropping tool

The story does not mention any arrests, but it sure makes for interesting reading.

Also no mention of remotely activating the phone's camera, but in principle that should be doable, at least to take periodic stills and send them back to HQ.

What an interesting project to take on! A cell phone as an audio visual surveliance tool with realtime geolocation. Presumably the FBI has working code, which means that the GNU version can't be far behind.

I can just see the feature creep now: It only starts listening in continuous mode when in a certain location, or when a periodic sample of audio sent back to HQ is flagged as being the target's voice. Or at least, that's what they tell the judge and the press.

Some excerpts:

"The FBI appears to have begun using a novel form of electronic surveillance in criminal investigations: remotely activating a mobile phone's microphone and using it to eavesdrop on nearby conversations."

....

"Kaplan's opinion said that the eavesdropping technique "functioned whether the phone was powered on or off." Some handsets can't be fully powered down without removing the battery; for instance, some Nokia models will wake up when turned off if an alarm is set."

....

Nextel and Samsung handsets and the Motorola Razr are especially vulnerable to software downloads that activate their microphones, said James Atkinson, a counter-surveillance consultant who has worked closely with government agencies. "They can be remotely accessed and made to transmit room audio all the time," he said. "You can do that without having physical access to the phone."

[Voltage Spike]

Re: Recently Arrested.

Wow. Real life tends to make people really jaded, doesn't it? At some point the well-intentioned are always punished, but what vast majority of the time when you aren't? Is it really worth not improving the world out of a feeling of self-defense?

our thoughtful installation guys took it upon themselves to put our cards or our coupon on the windshield

Well perhaps people shouldn't go advertising and attempting to profit from their good deeds. The intention was good, but that little attached statement saying the notifying party has a commercial interest in me is certainly not going to give me warm feelings.

And as far as closing the garage door, who is to say they didn't leave it open for the utility guy or a family member who forgot their keys?

Which is always a possibility, but most people aren't that stupid. Why would you put a big sign on the front of your house saying "The doors are unlocked!" when you could just, you know, unlock a front or back door.

[Nikita]

Re: Recently Arrested.

http://www.vnunet.com/computing/news...denial-service
From the article:
"Cyber criminals launching denial-of-service (Dos) attacks now face up to 10 years in prison, following the Police and Justice Act’s (PJA) passage into law last week.

The new rules also prohibit the supply of tools that can be used for hacking, with penalties of up to two years."

Also: http://j4b.mittelstandswiki.de/hacke...usly-punished/

changes to the Police and Justice bill would make it an offense to make, adapt, supply, or offer to supply any article which is designed or adapted to impair the operation of a computer, prevent or hinder access to a computer, or impair the operation of any program or access to any data.


On another note This is quickly turning into its own popular thread.

leave a note in the homeowner's mailbox (maybe even going so far as to say "i notice you have what appears to be an older model LiftMaster which has a tendency to bounce the door back up if it hits the pavement too hard on the way down... adjust the bottom stop knob to prevent this") or email anyone whom you can identify at a company... but do not do the "fixing" work yourself tends to be my guideline.

I would be inclined to agree with you, however.... I used to be a manager at an auto glass shop, not only did i handle the network, telemarketing systems, databases, some other nifty little things i don't know how i managed to make but i did, I also handled all the people who were pissed about one thing or another. When I say ALL the people, I mean it. Anyone who had a complaint to us i dealt with. Well our thoughtful installation guys took it upon themselves to put our cards or our coupon on the windshield of cars that needed a rock chip fix that could cause a bad crack, or if they had a windshield that would get them a ticket if they were pulled over or stopped by the wrong cop. Mainly just our info and a pleasant note saying something like "I can prob, get your windshield replaced for under 100$" Well, Unfortunately there are a lot of people who don't like it when we point out the obvious, and even more people who want something for free. There were a few phone calls I got where we were accused of causing the chip, crack or busted glass. Not true but imagine if they were telling the truth when they said, " I never saw that hole before and it was just fine until you came around, or a week after i got your note that little hole became a huge crack, you must have done something?!." etc etc.. now you have to deal with that liability. You are a stranger who placed yourself at the crime scene and admitted you were there in the room with the murder weapon. Regardless if you are the person who called 911, you are still an automatic suspect. The only time I may do something is in rare situations, life or death or the occasional empathetic reaction to someone else's imminent misery. And as far as closing the garage door, who is to say they didn't leave it open for the utility guy or a family member who forgot their keys?

[Deviant Ollam]

Re: Recently Arrested.

if you left your garage door open when you left the house, should I be arrested for stepping onto your property to close the door? (Note that I said should and not, as I expect most of the answers to be, could.)

now this is an interesting question that used to get tossed around a lot more than it is nowadays... the so called "ethical cracking" or "good samaritan cracking"

example: someone's mail server is running WinNT 3.5 an MS Exchange 1.0. the computer gets owned by some attacking bot machine in korea and starts attempting to spread a worm to many other computers, including one of mine. i notice the attack, trace to the source IP, and recognize/identify which security hole is the problem.

am i justified in this situation (morally/legally/etc) in breaking into that remote system (either with the presently-exploited hole or via another) in order to clean up the other person's mess? do i leave a message or note?

personally, i've never been comfortable with achieving "illicit" entry somewhere (either digitally or physically) in order to contain an insecure situation. i wouldn't walk all the way up someone's driveway in order to close their garage door and i wouldn't access a remote server to do some other admin's job for them.

however... sniffing around, inspecting things from a distance, and ascertaining as much information as possible in order to convey this in a message to the irresponsible/ignorant/confused party is something that i do not have any moral qualms with. anything that i can do passively which helps me to identify either the problem or an individual to whom i should speak is fine in my book.

leave a note in the homeowner's mailbox (maybe even going so far as to say "i notice you have what appears to be an older model LiftMaster which has a tendency to bounce the door back up if it hits the pavement too hard on the way down... adjust the bottom stop knob to prevent this") or email anyone whom you can identify at a company... but do not do the "fixing" work yourself tends to be my guideline.

[Voltage Spike]

Re: Recently Arrested.

Let me tell you this : You are wrong. Let me repeat it : You are wrong.

Okay, you guys seem to be arguing different things. One party is expressing what they think the law should be, and the other party is explaining what the law is (and also implicitly assumes that because it is the law it is right).

If nothing stops you from using it, it is still NOT legal to do so, unless you have explicit permission to do so.

You have to admit that is rather extreme, though. Whom do I ask for explicit permission to access a web site? How do I punish all the commercial entities who fill my (physical) mailbox with junk mail? If I broadcast my SSID as "Free For All", meaning free as in freedom, are police still allowed to prosecute those that connect?

I like Deviant Ollam's comparison to water because it reflects one of the core issues that few ever discuss: the cost of freeloaders is so low that most feel it shouldn't be punished. Few people, especially in the United States, pay per byte of data. The cost is sunk, and other people are not going to influence that. Even if they were to pay per-byte, the amount of data involved in a quick web access is of little consequence.

Like many things, people should take intent into account. Were they accessing your network because they were lost and wanted to find directions? Or were they trying to commit a crime (e.g., copyright violation) and didn't want to use their own resources to do so? To go back to an earlier comparison, if you left your garage door open when you left the house, should I be arrested for stepping onto your property to close the door? (Note that I said should and not, as I expect most of the answers to be, could.)

[astcell]

Re: Recently Arrested.

Sitting in a dark car with a laptop... why not just wear a black mast, a black and white striped shirt and carry a money bag with a dollar sign on the side?

[BonzoESC]

Re: Recently Arrested.

Well, the punishment is motiviation enough (if it comes down to a night in the drunk tank and having shit probably get confiscated by the police, I'll just wait until I find a coffee shop), but the enforcement leaves much to be desired. The two cases that have been cited in this thread have all been people huddled over their laptop in a parked car when it's dark out. Maybe people will stop once more cases come up when the criminal's a bit more clever/thoughtful, but the law's even less effectual than WEP at preventing breakins.

[astcell]

Re: Recently Arrested.

So, laws against theft of service are not enough to stop you from using it?

The punishment isn't motivation enough to stop, like speeding.

[theprez98]

Re: Recently Arrested.

It's much simpler in practice – if nothing stops you from using it, it's legal to use. If you don't have credentials to get on, or any knowledge of the network at all, then you can't use it. Sure it doesn't make any sense if you use a house analogy, but wifi isn't a house.

So, laws against theft of service are not enough to stop you from using it?

[patsprou]

Re: Recently Arrested.

If you felt insulted by that post, you really need to grow some thicker skin.
As for your feelings regarding the teenager and his sentence, see the points regarding punishments in different countries, made in my post preceding this one.
Remember, in Singapore you can go to jail for spitting used chewing gum, or plain old littering on the street.
It works for them, their city is among the cleanest in the world. I'll bet the harsh sentence on illegal network access also will work in their favour.

Dutch

You have a good point when it comes to punishments in different countries. Perhapse I should've thought that through more thoroughly. Thank you for your opinion.

[Dutch]

Re: Recently Arrested.

My sincerest apologies if I happened to offend you, but that's my opinion and I don't believe a teenager should be put away for years just for using someones internet. I respect your opinion and I understand your viewpoint therefor I expect others to do the same for me rather than just insulting me.

If you felt insulted by that post, you really need to grow some thicker skin.
As for your feelings regarding the teenager and his sentence, see the points regarding punishments in different countries, made in my post preceding this one.
Remember, in Singapore you can go to jail for spitting used chewing gum, or plain old littering on the street.
It works for them, their city is among the cleanest in the world. I'll bet the harsh sentence on illegal network access also will work in their favour.

Dutch

[Dutch]

Re: Recently Arrested.

I think this is already an issue – Windows and Mac OS X machines can be set to default to open networks in the absence of a preferred one, whether the network name has "Free Wireless" in it or not. Rather than relying on arbitrary English words to describe the permissions of the network, why not use technologically enforceable restrictions as the guideline for legality, instead of an antiquated view of networks that results in some crimes being impossible to prosecute except in cases of extreme idiocy.

It's much simpler in practice – if nothing stops you from using it, it's legal to use. If you don't have credentials to get on, or any knowledge of the network at all, then you can't use it. Sure it doesn't make any sense if you use a house analogy, but wifi isn't a house.

And I agree with the point that APs should ship with the wireless disabled (or set to a randomly-generated WPA key) requiring a control panel login to have wireless. It might be more work for the end user, but it's still much less work than having them deal with the aftermath of their connection being used for illegal means.

Let me tell you this : You are wrong. Let me repeat it : You are wrong.

If nothing stops you from using it, it is still NOT legal to do so, unless you have explicit permission to do so.

There has been several cases successfully prosecuted in the US, including the one from your neck of the woods that you cite yourself. Another similar case happened in Rockford, IL.

There has been similar cases prosecuted successfully over here in Europe as well, so having one case more in the far east is great IMHO.

You might find the punishment there more severe than what has been dished out in the US or in Europe, but hey, each country has the right to punish similar crimes according to their laws.
Imagine what would happen to you if you stole network access in a Shariah-law governed country.

But all in all, it goes to show what I've said all the time : If you don't have explicit permission to connect and utilize the network ressources associated with an un-encrypted AP, then you should not connect to it.

It really is as simple as that.

Dutch