PS3 Gossip

[skroo]

Re: PS3 Gossip

I don't think consumers laud the fact that games are not multi-console. Would a console that played games from all platforms equally well be a failure in the market?

So far, history seems to point to this being the case - granted, not so much with a 'one-console-plays-all' approach, but rather manufacturers licensing their hardware out to other companies. The MSX computer is one of the earlier examples of this, having never really caught on in any meaningful way. The Sears Telegames console may be an exception, but the Atari 2600 that it was based on still outsold it by a wide margin. More recent examples would be Aiwa and JVC's licensing of Sega units, and Panasonic and Sharp licensing Nintendo's. To be honest, I'm not entirely certain if this is down to confusion on the consumer's part ("How can it play Nintendo games if it's made by Panasonic?") or just plain brand snobbery, but people generally care less who makes their DVD player as long as it can play movies; gaming consoles seem to be perceived differently to other consumer electronics goods.

Remember the Philips (Magnavox in North America) CD-i? Great machine for its time, and pretty much paved the way for DVD. But given that Magnavox is not a 'prestige' brand in its markets (though my ten-year-old Magnavox TV still works beautifully), this may account for a large part of why it never achieved mainstream acceptance. There were other reasons, to be sure (and if you want, I can go into some of them at con - they're kind of off-topic here, but we had a very early unit), but people like having the Sony badge on their stuff.

Because of their closed nature, gamers may debate the merits of a console based on the media available for them. That shouldn't be confused with gamers being thrilled that they have to buy multiple consoles.

Fair point, but something I've noticed is that console gamers also like to rabidly remind the rest of the world why their console is better than the other guy's. Then again, the only console I ever owned when younger was a Vectrex - still working, by the way - so I was so far out in left field on this that I probably can't be classed as the typical gamer. I never actually wanted more than that console; computers were always a lot more interesting to me because you could make them do things other than just play games.

Rather, the difference between the home film and the gaming markets is largely one of maturity. The film industry is attempting to go from one, universal format to two marginally improved, equal formats. The gaming industry is moving from multiple platforms to multiple, greatly-improved platforms.

I disagree on this. Both have been around for approximately the same amount of time, having come to light in the mid-'70s. However, there have always been multiple gaming platforms at the same time as one dominant and a couple of other lesser-used video entertainment platforms. The Atari 2600, Intellivision, and ColecoVision (as well as others) all coexisted at the same time as VHS, Betamax, and Laserdisc. Now we have Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo offering their consoles while DVD is now dominant, VHS is waning, and there's no real third standard - yet. This is really a case of 'the more things change, the more they stay the same'.

As for the Betamax failure, was it an issue of "consumers demanding interoperable formats" or was it the competition between VHS vendors resulting in better, cheaper, more available players that helped decide the winner?

A little from column A, a little from column B. Column C was Sony's failure to make it price-competitive: they felt that Betamax' superior picture quality warranted a premium price. While they were at least right on paper, this was fine for the units still in use to this day in professional broadcasting but for the home consumer it was the kiss of death for the unit. At one point, it was possible to buy a Laserdisc player and VHS deck for the cost of one Betamax recorder - so you could have the superior picture quality of laserdisc (still better than Betamax IMHO) and recording capability of VHS for stuff you wanted to grab off-air.

Unless I really hate Company X, do I, as Joe Consumer, really care who makes my player as long as it is cheap, does what I want, and has enough media?

You or I may not... But a lot of people do.

This is exactly why both the Blu-Ray and HD DVD licenses forbid hybrid support; such players would dominate the market and result in a net loss for everyone.

Ah, but there's another reason for the licenses being written the way that they are: the people drawing up the specs are trying to prevent a repeat flood of $50 players hitting the shelves that are keypad-hackable to do things they weren't intended to.

[Voltage Spike]

Re: PS3 Gossip

Fair point, but something I've noticed is that console gamers also like to rabidly remind the rest of the world why their console is better than the other guy's.

True, but you have to keep in mind who the most vocal crowd is: young people with very little income. These people tend to buy a single console and then constantly feel the need to remind others that they made the right decision.

I disagree on this. Both have been around for approximately the same amount of time, having come to light in the mid-'70s.

I wasn't referring strictly to age. There is a very sophisticated level of technology in computers (e.g., game consoles), and that technology is still progressing rapidly. Video, relatively speaking, has progressed slowly and requires a much greater level of investment in order to move on to the "next big thing".

Unless I really hate Company X, do I, as Joe Consumer, really care who makes my player as long as it is cheap, does what I want, and has enough media?

You or I may not... But a lot of people do.

Actually, I was thinking quite the opposite. People tend to look at me funny when I refuse to buy from a particular company because of that company's practices.

Ah, but there's another reason for the licenses being written the way that they are: the people drawing up the specs are trying to prevent a repeat flood of $50 players hitting the shelves that are keypad-hackable to do things they weren't intended to.

I'm not sure what you are getting at. How does an agreement saying you can't stick two lasers on a drive stop the evil hackers from having their fun?

[skroo]

Re: PS3 Gossip

True, but you have to keep in mind who the most vocal crowd is: young people with very little income. These people tend to buy a single console and then constantly feel the need to remind others that they made the right decision.

*Shrug* Maybe. Like I said: I'm not a console gamer (the last console I bought was in 2005, and it was an Atari Flashback. I've never owned a PlayStation n, Dreamcast, X-Box, or Nintendo whatever (with the exception of the first NES in Ireland, but that's an entirely other story of the first time I chose to completely ignore a piece of computer equipment).

I wasn't referring strictly to age.

Understood. However, there are significant parallels between video game consoles and home entertainment in terms of timelines. It's just how consumers perceive the two that makes the difference.

There is a very sophisticated level of technology in computers (e.g., game consoles), and that technology is still progressing rapidly. Video, relatively speaking, has progressed slowly and requires a much greater level of investment in order to move on to the "next big thing".

Not dismissing the "next big thing" idea - in fact, I think you're bang-on here, at least insofar as video is concerned. But that's been the nature of the beast for the past 30 years, and goes quite some way towards illustrating the differences between the videogame and video/music markets outlined previously. Having said that, video has had next big things - Laserdisc, S-VHS, DVD. Whether they were adopted or not is another question, but they have been there. It's not so much that it's progressing slowly as that it's progressing at the rate the market adopts its changes, and the video market is a lot different to the videogame market.

Hell, audio CDs are largely-unchanged since 1984 (capacities aside), yet they keep selling. When's our next jump on that going to be?

Actually, I was thinking quite the opposite. People tend to look at me funny when I refuse to buy from a particular company because of that company's practices.

Same here... And fuck 'em.

I'm not sure what you are getting at. How does an agreement saying you can't stick two lasers on a drive stop the evil hackers from having their fun?

Nonono - that wasn't what I was getting at at all. To clarify: what I was talking about was companies licensing the technology being obliged to conform to the terms of that licence, not people outside of that licence being compelled to pay any regard towards it. What we're likely to see as a potential result of its adoption is a greater adherence to the terms of the licence by the companies promoting it, not a drop in people trying to work around it. If anything, I would expect the lack of corporate leeway to spur more people on to find new and exciting ways to use the content as they choose.

[Voltage Spike]

Re: PS3 Gossip

Hell, audio CDs are largely-unchanged since 1984 (capacities aside), yet they keep selling. When's our next jump on that going to be?

As I hinted at with my earlier post on our biological limits of perception, at some point people don't notice the difference between the next big thing and the last big thing on fidelity alone.

What we're likely to see as a potential result of its adoption is a greater adherence to the terms of the licence by the companies promoting it, not a drop in people trying to work around it.

It could all be a bluff, but what we are actually seeing is Asian manufacturers threatening to release hybrid players if each format gains a strong foothold. And once they've violated some terms of the license agreement, what will stop them from picking and choosing from the rest of the terms?

But, yes, the media companies are constantly trying to fuck their customers with the hopes that the customers will thank them for it. It hasn't worked well so far, but damned if they aren't going to keep banging their head against that wall!

[converge]

Re: PS3 Gossip

.. at some point people don't notice the difference between the next big thing and the last big thing on fidelity alone.

Yup, which was certainly not true coming out of the VHS generation of technology. We now have the ability to pretty much record and distribute master copy quality media to the masses .. which doesn't necessarily mean noticeably better product.

I liken this much to what I see happening with computers in general. There are certain types of activities that dictate faster and better machines, but for the most part the only thing keeping consumers upgrading to newer ones is bloatware, spyware, ANTIVIRUS software and other resource hogs .. and maybe a newer OS here and there. In all honesty, I still value 200MHz and higher systems.. they drive my network without question if properly purposed. When deciding between a 2GHz unit and a 4GHz unit, I'll choose the 2GHz for pricing reasons to better tailor the system to what I want; something that would not have been a consideration when asked if you wanted to upgrade my 286 (all novelty aside). Somewhere in my near lifetime, I suspect that technology will exceed our ability to overwhelm it with crap cycles that make the user experience noticeably degraded.. hitting a similar plateau to the media circus discussed above.