Regarding smoking at Defcon

[tequilastrapple]

I am posting this poll as an off-shoot of a small sub-discussion that has been taking place in the “Sticky: Ideas for Defcon 15” thread, on the topic of cigarette smoke at Defcon. This poll is being conducted only out of curiosity. I am a forum “nobody,” with no actual power to affect smoking policy at Defcon. Wouldn't want to step on anybody's toes here.

[Z^2]

Re: Regarding smoking at Defcon

What I have to say is that I'm from Vermont, and smoking is not allowed in any public indoor areas there. That being said, I have the tendency to glare at people who smoke inside - having had horrid asthma when I was younger, and under the mindset that smoking inside is illegal. (Yes my lungs are still recovering from defcon.)

I think the suggestion in the other thread that smoking in the speaking-track rooms [be disallowed] would be a good idea. Allowing smoking in the vendor room(s) should be up to the vendors, and I think not allowing smoking in eating-places should be enforced because I don't want my food tasting like tobacco. Event areas...I don't think I have any ideas. Having the event leader make decisions would be a good idea because it's their event, yet people who want to participate might opt-out because of either having to put up with smoke or having to not-smoke because of the whiners (like me ).

I know they had ventilation going because I'd watch the smoke slowly rise upward from people's cigarettes, but that really doesn't help once a certain portion of the population inside is smoking. My eyes were watering and burned all of the weekend. Smoking leaves residues all over walls and cielings and floors in any case, so we can't eliminate it all because it's already there (and the smokers would wage war), but I'd certainly appreciate being able to speak without stopping to cough like an 80 year old man with emphysema.

[Deviant Ollam]

Re: Regarding smoking at Defcon

i'm a non-smoker and have never been a smoker but i have no overall fundamental problem with smoke. i don't like it thick and i don't like it when i can't get away from it... but overall i don't have the health/allergy issues that others do which makes their opinions much stronger.

in all, i'd say that areas which allow for / are usually enjoyed via "perpetual mingling" are alright as smoking areas. (here i'm thinking of hallways, the vendor rooms, all outdoors) as for spaces where you typically pull up a chair and get comfy for a while (speaking tracks, perhaps the chillout area, skyboxes) we might do well to have a "smoking section" that's as proportional to the smoker population as we can estimate.

since skyboxes are so small it might just be best for whomever is in control of a particular box to make their own policy (like no smoking indoors but only on the balcony) but spaces like speaking tracks are, i think, large enough to accomodate a smoker's section... just make sure it has a wide enough berth (say, a 6' to 10' wide walkway) separating it from the normal area and i'd bet you're alright. some people right at the border edge might complain about being "so close to the smoking section" but guess what, with approximately 75% or more of the speaking tracks being non-smoker-ville (i'm guessing on the percentage to be decided) you can show up early to a talk and ensure yourself a more smog-free seat if it means that much to you.

this wouldn't be all that hard as it would only involve judicious arrangement of chairs and maybe a few signs or goon remarks.

just my $0.02

[DaKahuna]

Re: Regarding smoking at Defcon

Smoking should not be permitted in the speaking track areas they are just too congested.

Smoking should be permitted in the skybox lounge / bar but a non-smoking area should also be provided.

Smoking in the con areas should be up to the people running the cons.

My $0.02 worth!

[Miss Jackalope]

Re: Regarding smoking at Defcon

As a vendor, I really hate it when people get cigarette ashes on my product. Its just plain rude.

[theprez98]

Re: Regarding smoking at Defcon

Apparently someone already rigged the poll.

[Chris]

Re: Regarding smoking at Defcon

Apparently someone already rigged the poll.

That's crazy talk. The people have spoken.

[Z^2]

Re: Regarding smoking at Defcon

Apparently someone already rigged the poll.

To that end, option #9 makes options #1 and #2 redundant. And option #8 indicates excruciating amounts of fucking. Although it is very nice use of 666 in any case.

Back to the topic, I think smoking/non-smoking sections in talks would be ok - at some airports where they still allow smoking (like in Munich, for example, where this worked well the last time I flew through), if there is adequate ventilation above/around where people are smoking, the rest of us don't have to share in their nicotine. Or maybe this would work: If there were a couple of non-smoking rooms along the way of the corridor every so often that whiners like me could duck into to catch a breath of non-smoke-filled-air, it would help. As it was this year, there really was no place to go if you really needed to get away from it in the main con areas other than to wander in any given direction and hope you could find a way out of the riv into the heat (I swear that place is really a blown-up version of a rat-maze), or escape to your room if you were lucky to board with non-smokers.

[Thorn]

Re: Regarding smoking at Defcon

1) I'm a former smoker. I gave it up for several reasons, but mainly economic due to over taxation. I did not "quit" per se, but merely stopped one day. Horror stories about herion-like additiction are not true, at least not in my case.

2) I reside in Vermont. Not everyone here appreciates the the State's Big Brother goverment coddling people. Some of us believe that any such law is a violation of basic rights.

Note: It's hard to discuss this without going near the P&R edge, never mind straight off the cliff. I cut out a large amount of ranting about govermental issues.

As for DC, let those who don't like smoke step outside. It's merely the inverse of what is forced on people here.

And I voted for option #8.

[BlackOrchid]

Re: Regarding smoking at Defcon

As a smoker who was diagnosed with asthma 9 months ago, I can understand someone who has issue with polution of ANY kind! The extreme amount of vehicle exhaust that is being emitted causes me to have asthmatic episodes more than cig smoke. (so stop driving! *wink*)

I do believe that the conference areas should not be smoking zones at defcon. I don't recall smoking being allowed in the AP conference rooms and I think people can certainly wait through a talk for an hour without smoking.

I can also understand not smoking in the vendor area. It's a confined space generally and ventilation seemed to be relatively lacking. I can understand vendors being concerned about their products being damaged by careless and rude smokers. I don't see a problem with people putting the cig out to shop! (most shopping areas in America do not allow smoking)

Mentioning also, There was a general lack of ashtrays in the chillout area, the B&W ball, and NO ashtrays in the conf, or vendor area that I ever spotted. (BTW, those little tinfoil ashtrays are useless and causes a greater mess! I chose to use a beer can instead.)

If you have a serious asthma issue, Vegas is NOT a place to go! The polution there, the dust and general air quality requires heavy medication for asthmatics. (I was one of those, this year, who HAD to carry an inhaler at all times.) But I'm certainly not going to attempt to change VEGAS or even a casino/hotel. This is a city that is known and based on smoking, drinking, gambling, and sex! I just 'suck it up' and drive on!... I knew what I was getting into before I went!

This defcon was already so guarded and ruled over defcon ever! More rules will alienate a lot of people. Let's not over do the rules. But likewise, be considerate of your fellow persons, and don't smoke in conferences and vendor areas (where there ARE NO ASHTRAYS!)

As a smoker, I'm willing to give in on a lot of things, but I'd love to see the NON-smokers give in just once in a while!

[Chris]

Re: Regarding smoking at Defcon

I can also understand not smoking in the vendor area. It's a confined space generally and ventilation seemed to be relatively lacking. I can understand vendors being concerned about their products being damaged by careless and rude smokers. I don't see a problem with people putting the cig out to shop! (most shopping areas in America do not allow smoking)

Yeah, now that's just silly

Seriously though, there are two problems with making the vendor area completely non-smoking (three if you count "Chris wants to smoke").

1. Many of the vendors smoke. If they have to leave the vendor area to smoke, who is going to watch their merchandise. Each vendor is responsible for their own stuff while the area is open. The Vendor Staff (Goons) aren't going to take responsibility for a vendor's merchandise while they go out to smoke. Not feasible.

2. Who is going to enforce this non-smoking vendor area? I know for a FACT that I am not going to go up to someone smoking in there and ask them to leave/put it out. Especially since chances are I'd be smoking when I said that to them. I think we (Goons) have better things to do than be the smoking police.

As a smoker, I'm willing to give in on a lot of things, but I'd love to see the NON-smokers give in just once in a while!

Preach on sista!

[valkyrie]

Re: Regarding smoking at Defcon

As a smoker who was diagnosed with asthma 9 months ago, I can understand someone who has issue with polution of ANY kind! The extreme amount of vehicle exhaust that is being emitted causes me to have asthmatic episodes more than cig smoke. (so stop driving! *wink*)

Used to be a smoker, but not any more. But I still think that rights are rights. If you want to smoke, I am not going to bitch, moan or complain to stop you. And thought it's not good for me, I still indulge ocassionally.

I do believe that the conference areas should not be smoking zones at defcon. I don't recall smoking being allowed in the AP conference rooms and I think people can certainly wait through a talk for an hour without smoking.

I can also understand not smoking in the vendor area. It's a confined space generally and ventilation seemed to be relatively lacking. I can understand vendors being concerned about their products being damaged by careless and rude smokers. I don't see a problem with people putting the cig out to shop! (most shopping areas in America do not allow smoking)

Mentioning also, There was a general lack of ashtrays in the chillout area, the B&W ball, and NO ashtrays in the conf, or vendor area that I ever spotted. (BTW, those little tinfoil ashtrays are useless and causes a greater mess! I chose to use a beer can instead.)

If'n you can be nice about it, then the non-smokers should also be nice about it. Come on people! This should not be something that comes between people.

If you have a serious asthma issue, Vegas is NOT a place to go! The polution there, the dust and general air quality requires heavy medication for asthmatics. (I was one of those, this year, who HAD to carry an inhaler at all times.) But I'm certainly not going to attempt to change VEGAS or even a casino/hotel. This is a city that is known and based on smoking, drinking, gambling, and sex! I just 'suck it up' and drive on!... I knew what I was getting into before I went!

Yeah baby!

This defcon was already so guarded and ruled over defcon ever! More rules will alienate a lot of people. Let's not over do the rules. But likewise, be considerate of your fellow persons, and don't smoke in conferences and vendor areas (where there ARE NO ASHTRAYS!)

As a smoker, I'm willing to give in on a lot of things, but I'd love to see the NON-smokers give in just once in a while!

You respect me. I respect you. Isn't that the way it's supposed to work?

stay shiny!

V

[jur1st]

Re: Regarding smoking at Defcon

I know that when I was there I didn't smoke at all inside the tracks...except for after the last talk was over and we were hanging out in Track 1. Since I was swilling vodka for during many of the later talks, I would get up and move just outside the door to enjoy my smooth gretsky. I concluded that either smoking wasn't allowed and I didn't want to risk a swat with the electric fly-swatter or that everyone was being polite.

It certainly wouldn't hurt to make an out and out ban on smoking inside the tracks. The rest of the areas, however, should remain smoking and anyone who ashes on products in the vendor area deserves a punch in the nuts.

[hackajar]

Re: Regarding smoking at Defcon

Smoking NEXT to non smokers is rude, IMHO. Open area's you should be able to smoke. Las Vegas is famous for having the "Free Cig" people at all the clubs, you could invite them to attend and give their stuff away, there by side steping any legal actions for DC giving away smokes.

/Note I'm a former smoker

[atopian]

Re: Regarding smoking at Defcon

I know that when I was there I didn't smoke at all inside the tracks...except for after the last talk was over and we were hanging out in Track 1. Since I was swilling vodka for during many of the later talks, I would get up and move just outside the door to enjoy my smooth gretsky. I concluded that either smoking wasn't allowed and I didn't want to risk a swat with the electric fly-swatter or that everyone was being polite.

It certainly wouldn't hurt to make an out and out ban on smoking inside the tracks. The rest of the areas, however, should remain smoking and anyone who ashes on products in the vendor area deserves a punch in the nuts.

While it might be an issue if it were only a couple of people smoking, it seemed that at least a third, mabye even of the defcon attendees smoked. Other than mabye giving a section of the speaker tracks to NSers, I dont see any reason to touch any smoking rules outside of those enforced by the venue defcon is held at. I did notice with the speaker tracks it wasnt an issue, unless the smoker was basicly right becide you, so marking the area should be more than sufficent.

And agreed on the cockpunch for anyone ashing on the vendors stuff. Though Ira probably has some good earth moving equipment amoung all his stuff, and there is a big desert out there. ;)