Defcon X = $100.00 Admission

[Contrarian]

Originally posted by Grifter
DefCon is a private organization which is not required to show its books to the public. So settle down and forget about it.

No, he doesn't have to show them. And corporations that release protection schemes are also private entities that are not required to show that information to the public.

However, if I were to reverse engineer an encryption scheme I'd be praised. If I try to reverse engineer the books, I'm being damned. Why should the finance department be any different from the engineering department? Or is it just that DC and DT are exempt from any scrutiny?

Further, I did not include DT in the same lot as Microsoft and Enron. Read again. I said if nobody ever raises questions (specifically with regards to the finance or how business is conducted in an organization) then that is what can happen.

Also for the last time. I have never said the con should be free. I am just curious how the finances of the con breaks down.

And to the person who said "the only way to find out is to do it" is not true. Entire graduate level courses are devoted to business modeling and creating pro-forma expectations based on realistic estimates derived from other sources. The figures may not be exact (and sometimes they are even way off - welcome to the art of finance), but they can be close enough to draw conclusions and expectations from.

[russ]

$$$ & DCX

I've never been paid for DefCon. I've never accepted any rooms at the Alexis. I spent 80% of my time helping out at the con. And I STILL love DefCon.

I like it because I can meet people I talk to online all year long. I can talk about shit that's interesting to me, guns, security, hacking, technology. And I'll grant you that it's getting more and more difficult to "hook up" with people you'd really enjoy talking to, but can you give me a way to narrow the scope?

I heard one person say that the goons are being elitist... hell, I'm no elitist. I don't speak at DefCon (or BlackHat for that matter) because I know just how many SMART people go to this convention that know more than me. I want to continue learning new shit. I want to hang out.

But let's address these concerns in order:
1) No one is out to knock people out of attending that we want to be there. How do we fix it? Ideas? If we're going to fix it and the price hike isn't the right way, what is? How do you keep seemingly intelligent human beings from hurting themselves and others? And if you can't do that, how do you keep them away?
2) We still want this to be a cool conference. But everyone has said that the level of information coming from speakers has gone to hell in a hand basket. How do we get better speakers? Personal connections? Pay the speakers?
3) Where does the money go? Cool ass badges & lanyards. Schedules. Basically "renting" the entire f*cking hotel for 5 days. Damages. (Have you seen the hotel after everyone leaves?). Granted, with the rate increase there will be more cash (hopefully), but there are plans to pay the goons, get better speakers by paying them and flying them in, and do something special for our 10th anniversary.

I hate to see good people miss this con. I hate to see lame people come to the con. But IMHO, the term "lame" is completely subjective and many of the people who cause trouble think they're cool.

I'm willing to help any way I can. But we need REAL solutions.

Russ

[criticalmass]

shit i am still comin it could cost like a billion dollors i would go hit a bank or 2 .;)

[Kweejee]

Since the DJ room is gone, how about using some of the money for live music? That was the one thing I enjoyed about that room other than the free stuff at the table.

[Grifter]

and do something special for our 10th anniversary

Any Hints?

[simon]

Fuck $100 Dollars

I'm sorry, but I don't have money to just kick down. I can barely afford to pay rent (god damn good for nothing san francisco, dot bomb suns of .... ). I dunno. I haven't read the reasons yet, they probably are reasonable... But I hate the idea of spending so much fucking money on a Con, when I could feed starving people for a week or two.

simon

[encieno]

Originally posted by Kweejee
Since the DJ room is gone, how about using some of the money for live music? That was the one thing I enjoyed about that room other than the free stuff at the table.

so uh. the dj room is gone? as in where they had minibosses and shiet playing last year? i hadn't heard that anywhere yet. that would suck.

[codex]

In reply to Contrarian's post of 3-5-2002 7:16 PM

In reply to Contrarian's post of 3-5-2002 7:16 PM

3b) I have a problem with making a huge profit when you're the de facto only game in town. I think that’s one of the reasons why the justice department is suing Microsoft.

He is not the only game in town. If you don't believe me do a google search for computer security conventions. Please also note that there is even a page on Defcon linking to other conventions, so it is not like DT is trying to hide the fact that there are other cons. Even rubi-con, which is not even 1/5 the size of Defcon charges $100 for registration. In short Defcon is not the only game in town but it is/was 1) the first game in town, 2) the biggest game in down, 3) by vote of the people (if you attend, you voted with your dollors, and time) it is the most popular/best. That is free enterprise, Microsoft got in trouble because they forced out other business and sabotaged competitors. I.E. Defcon would have to make all attended sign agreements not to go to any other cons and send people to disrupt all other major cons to be in the same boat as M$.

<Bad French Accent>There is a difference, no?</Bad French Accent>


5) I did consider insurance, but I was considering it from the aspect of insurance if one of the attendees got hurt not insurance to reimburse the hotel if something is damaged.
Insurance for 5000 rowdy, loud, drunk, drugged-out, very curious teenagers is not cheap. And yes Defcon does have to have insurance for anyone getting hurt, they are the conference sponsors so they are ultimately responsible (I have been part of planning several 200-1000 person events, so I can say BTDT). Also consider the damage done to the facilities. It would not surprise me if Alexis closed down for the week after Defcon to drain and clean all the pools, Jacuzzi’s, fountains, etc. Not to forget the knocked over lights, damaged walls, broken furniture, etc. That is factored it what the hotel charges Defcon to rent the facility's.

If nobody ever watches and raises questions then you are left with companies like Microsoft and Enron.

Ok, I will give you that one. It is a fairly valid point. But it is still DT's choice. Gota love that free enterprise stuff.


Here is an "Interesting Thought". What if DT held a session about how Defcon spend the money? He could show us the books for the first 9 years and give a brief overview of how costs have changed. That way everyone can see where the money went and why it went there.
Note: to keep such a session from turning into a mad scramble, any questions from the audience would need to actually be relevant

[russ]

Don't Freak Out Yet

Ok, before you all freak out, let the goons finish discussing all this. There are some serious discussions taking place between the senior goons concerning costs, services, "special stuff", more goons, price, etc.

More will come out soon.

[evilcow]

need info what do i get for $ 100

i have never been to a defcon .. .


so this year its $100s

what do i get for a $100s

can anyone please be so kind to mention..... ;)

[Grifter]

what do i get for a $100s

can anyone please be so kind to mention

Sure, you can find that information here.

Although for future reference. Read the posts prior to yours, this entire thread has been about the cost hike for defcon this year and the pros and cons concerning it. Like any other message board, try to remain informed before posting, otherwise you'll get flamed. if you had read the previous posts, you would have seen that I had already posted the link to this information once before. Just keep that in mind. :)

[evilcow]

Originally posted by Grifter


Sure, you can find that information here.

Although for future reference. Read the posts prior to yours, this entire thread has been about the cost hike for defcon this year and the pros and cons concerning it. Like any other message board, try to remain informed before posting, otherwise you'll get flamed. if you had read the previous posts, you would have seen that I had already posted the link to this information once before. Just keep that in mind. :)

link didnt work for me sorry

[russ]

Price Info

The pricing information has changed. period. It isn't going to be $100. We're working on specifics on what we can afford to do based on lower price per head. The link was removed to avoid further confusion. I expect an update to be on the website at anytime.

[converge]

up it more

$150.. $200.. get some kickass speakers, discourage those that are just there to party and demolish theres fun, and then theres stupid.. hmm... makes one wonder what the cost of getting mitnick to show up would be (inc. parole bribes, etc)

i'm already putting down some $$ to get there, and be there.. lets have some fun :) shit.. half our band will be there i'm down for layin out some emo/indie for the con if live music is wanted