Defcon Wifes Club

[TheCotMan]

Re: Defcon Wifes Club

if enough of them could talk about what there is to do in Las Vegas, they might form their own groups, and find things to do at Con as well as outside of con.

[sk00t]

Re: Defcon Wifes Club

Honey: I don't think the problem people want to solve is converting / training / teaching. That's what DefCon is, and it's already there in spades for those who want it, of any gender / orientation.

In my case, my SO is waay smarter than I, with the creds to prove it, but her field is not tech, so there's not much at DC for her. I wouldn't expect her to sit through talks or whatever any more than she'd expect me to do the same when I've tagged along with her to cons for her stuff.

So... Something for her and other "hacker widows / widowers" to do would be cool, whatever it might be.

With so many people coming each year, and as Octal pointed out, so many of us getting older (Priest pushing a stroller! Wow!), there are probably hundreds of such people walking around Vegas by themselves during DC. Seems the problem is just getting them all in one room.

I will say for my part it's not likely my SO will be attending until DC17 or so, when my little hacklings are big enough to either stay with grandma or make CTF quals.

[Stypica]

Re: Defcon Wifes Club

The simple fact is that we're getting old. We've got careers, mortgages, and SO's - not all of whom are interested in what we do. They go out of their way to be supporting, but do they really need to miss out on what could be a fun weekend exploring Vegas just so we can feel better about our status as women in this community? There are the fortunate few who have SO's who are actively involved in this, but many more have no interest whatsoever and are only trying to support something they know is important to their partner.

That sums it up quite nicely. I had been discussing this thread with my wife and she brought it up to LosT's wife - they both think it's a brilliant idea to help facilitate the meet-up of the SOs before con. Neither of them care at all what we do, but they want to support us in our endeavors. And if we are taking a trip to vegas, they would like to take a trip as well.

Defcon Widow[er]s club is more like it:)

The original plan for myself, LosT and Acidica was for the three of us to come to defcon this year while our sweeties went off and did their own thing. When the other two had to cancel for different reasons, my wife decided "ok, I'm just gonna go to disneyland for batsday then." Had she known other people who would be in vegas she may have stayed.

The concept that we would organize stuff for them to do is a little silly - they'll find whatever it is they want to do and do it, it's just a matter of facilitating the conversation and a place to meet.

[octalpus]

Re: Defcon Wifes Club

Those who know me and my adamant hatred of scenewhores probably expect me to jump on the "this is stupid" bandwagon. This isn't about scenewhores, though. TW's wife is an amazing woman whose first experience in the US was Defcon. Imagine being in a foreign country where you barely know the language, having no idea of the culture, and getting dropped into the middle of Defcon. She has been ridiculously tolerant and I know she's not the only one out there who has gone to these lengths to appease a spouse.

The simple fact is that we're getting old. We've got careers, mortgages, and SO's - not all of whom are interested in what we do. They go out of their way to be supporting, but do they really need to miss out on what could be a fun weekend exploring Vegas just so we can feel better about our status as women in this community? There are the fortunate few who have SO's who are actively involved in this, but many more have no interest whatsoever and are only trying to support something they know is important to their partner.

If I were on the other side of this, I know for a fact that I wouldn't want to be left at home while my SO was off galavanting around Vegas with his drunkard friends. I also can't imagine that I'd want to be in a press of people with whom I have no common interests.

I am secure enough with myself and my standing in this community to know that someone else's SO who is there to support his/her partner is not a threat to me or my reputation. I think this is a great opportunity to recognise the sacrifices our partners make to support our fringe lifestyle and let them have a little fun as well. IMNHSO, I say we tweak the name a bit and lend some assistance to helping these important people get together and have as much fun as we do.

[TheCotMan]

Re: Defcon Wifes Club

It is not sidetracked.

The topic is still open, and I've been talking to TW outside of this too.

It sounds like there is support for this.

If a new forum is created for this, should it be user-subscribe-able like /dev/random?

What should the focus of the forum be? Are there people wiling to be "welcome wagons" for people that join to discuss this kind of stuff in the forums? How do we determine its success or failure? How long should it remain before any decisions are made?

[Schuyler]

Re: Defcon Wifes Club

wtf

I do not want to see this thread get derailed from it's original purpose because of some semantic bullshit. We all agree that this isn't being aimed at women specifically, yes? Despite the unfortunate title.

I don't believe anyone here is lookin' to weaponize da wiminfolkz.

[honey]

Re: Defcon Wifes Club

I completely disagree wit this idea.

If and only if a place is setup called “train the 194itches”.

I am a hardcore computer LAMER AND a woman. It IS possible to encourage interest in teh womenz. LETS DO THAT.

Think about all you could share with them, if they could be converted.

People, men and women alike are interested in “knowing”, unless they are lemmings.

I don’t agree that there should a place for wives to meet up and go “shopping” unless they are shopping at CompUSA or RAdioshackityShack.

These women need to be trained as electronic female warriors. Train em’ up. Start feeding them pdfs on basic computer stuff and encourage them.

I say PREPARE your womenz for the con. DOIT NOW

If THIS could be accomplished, it would be the best of both worlds for ALL.

[Grendel]

We need to do this

Ok, I know I'm about to get long-winded here, but this year I brought my wife at her urging. She is not into computers like I am and there were parts of the Con where she was extremely bored. Her overall experience was very positive, and she's already talking about next year (a VERY good sign, IMO).

However, these are the things that negatively affected her having fun specifically at DefCon:

1) She likes lockpicking, but not 3 days worth
2) She enjoyed watching me speak, but even my speech bored her (she couldn't stop yawning)
3) She wasn't interested in any of the talks; so, often she just sat against the wall while I participated in CtF
4) She found out there was an International Belly Dance Convention going on at the same time down at South Point and spent time there as well (alone)
5) She didn't know anybody and didn't really want to seek others out, mostly because she's not really into what goes on at DefCon (other than the parties)

Once I saw this thread, I realized that creating (at the least) a forum for those who are coming on the arm of their SO would be a great idea. If this also included a get-together at least once (like at the beginning of the event), she would have an opportunity to meet others and perhaps have an even greater time.

I see DefCon as a couple things:
- An opportunity to learn
- An opportunity to meet people with similar interests

But for my wife, until she meets others who have interests other than "computer stuff" (her words), she won't have as great an experience as she might. If a forum was created to connect people specifically like her, she would undoubtedly have a fantastic time since she likes meeting people.

I know that this was suggested by someone else, so I want to voice my support for at least a new forum for those who are attending DefCon, but may not really be interested in DefCon per se. I also support a get-together as well. If this is just an idea being bantered about and someone needs to step forward to take charge, then consider me stepping forward. If someone else is willing to take charge, then I'm here to help.

I'll do anything to make her time at DefCon 16 more fulfilling.

- Grendel

[converge]

Re: Defcon Wifes Club

.. nothing but the best intentions

Don't get me wrong here.. I am not the guy to stop these hot women from burning their bras; just trying to add a little context to the thread that some folks appear to be missing.

Thanks Deviant, I'm a lucky guy :) You're one of several folks I wish I had more time to chill with this year; at least we got to rock out to the minibosses together!

[Deviant Ollam]

Re: Defcon Wifes Club

converge, i think that you and mfreeck are outstanding together... but most of all what is outstanding is how you can function well apart, too. that is one of the most satisfying things to find in a relationship with someone... a person whom you don't feel the need to babysit and whom you can be all lovey-dovey with when you're together but don't have a problem with leaving on the other side of the room/hotel/city/planet whenever life calls you that direction.

you two are great, and i appreciate so much how your flexible and healthy relationship lets you be able to work, party, and generally be a part of the lives of those who dig you... folks like me.

was great getting to hang with you at defcon, as always, and i hope that if kids are ever a part of your futures that you manage the situation with as much flexibility and candor and freedom as you do with things as they are now.

[TechnoWeenie]

Re: Defcon Wifes Club

I saw TW open this thread as a channel to help him and his SO find a better means of enjoying con-time. I'm pretty sure he was not seeking to demean her, other women, other SOs, or the french army.

well.. the French are just too easy.. no need to do what they do themselves.


those that know me, know that I have nothing but the best intentions.

tw

[converge]

Re: Defcon Wifes Club

I'm not so sure that the objection is to SOs finding other things to do while in Vegas, but more of the specific advertisement to "bring your SO and maybe they'll catch on'. I agree that just borders on silly.

DC10: I had no strings attached, future wife was at defcon but I pretty much didn't know her outside of misc irc interaction
DC11: I had no strings attached, met my wife as a friend, chatted from time to time poolside and with other friends, but otherwise was free to roam con
DC12: We were growingly close, getting engaged, and all that jazz; we attended con as more as a unit, but still split from time to time. Our friend-base was still manageably similar, had similar con interests, and otherwise enough con-estate to coordinate a joint attempt.
DC13: I was mia due to work/finance/life related pain, now married and trying to make ends meet, just shy of returning to the tech world
DC14: Friendbase grown exponentially for both of us and interests shifted considerably, we spent much of the con trying to do things together but had a really rough time pulling it off, at the cost of our sanity and for her at the cost of having much of a good time at all.
DC15: We approached this con with the idea that we would probably not see each other at all; I geared to blackhat, wireless village, LosT mystery box, and an unmanageable subset of friends, her taking more interest in doing less-tech things with another huge subset of friends. We have too many friends; I came to realization this con that I can't in any respect spend time with all my friends now... it kinda blows. Guess I just have to go to more cons now! But I digress, by approaching the con seperately, we met up from time to time and discovered we were both having a blast. It's not that either of us were less deserving of being at Defcon than the other, not that either of us wanted to be there more or less than the other .. just that our intent for time in Vegas differed.

I saw TW open this thread as a channel to help him and his SO find a better means of enjoying con-time. I'm pretty sure he was not seeking to demean her, other women, other SOs, or the french army. I'm also pretty sure he wasn't aiming to attract as many non-Defcon folks to Defcon as possible in a Vegas buffering spirit.

The idea is that for those in attendance that don't take interest in all, any, or enough of the festivities of con... why not hook them up so that they can have a good time in Vegas doing other Vegas things, other con things, or whatnot... that way both parties can enjoy the time equally instead of one feeling like the caretaker for the other.

Something worth noting is that a list, forum, or channel of communication would help folks attain that friendship between now and next con. A means of communication amoung each other that would otherwise be incongruent with discussions that occur on existing Defcon mediums. What would be the most inclusive?

[Mel]

Re: Defcon Wifes Club

WifeCon 2008

[Schuyler]

Re: Defcon Wifes Club

I understand where you're going, but I believe you're demonizing a good idea.

Here's my perspective:
My "little woman" is far and away the most supportive person in my life in regard to anything, but specifically locksport (which is what lands me at DEFCON) and I desperately wanted her to be with me this year and plan to bring her next year. It would make my year for her to attend my talk, or watch me compete in the skillz competition, or be up in the LPV picking alongside me.

When we come back next year, we're definitely getting her a badge so she can do all those things. We'll also plan some time before or after the Con to visit vegas and see what there is to see. That said?

DEFCON IS 3 DAYS LONG!

And she has other interests, unrelated to locksport, unrelated to anything at defcon. Aside from the specific in-con events, and maybe meals, we'll be apart for the better part of the weekend. Las Vegas, by yourself, can be a wicked lonely place. I think the idea of having a spouse/significant other-led subforum where they can have the option of planning or participating in outside-of-con events, like catching a matinée or going gambling as a group, is entirely valid.

When any of us walks in to DC, we suddenly have 10,000 friends excited to geek-out with us for 3 days, and while I've always found the LP community extremely welcoming and I'm sure the hacker community is as well, you KNOW that if you weren't either raised in that culture or share the common interests, you walk in to con basically alone.

I don't know why you have such a problem with TW's suggestion of a spouse-LED group, providing an option for people. This doesn't preclude anyone from showing up to DC instead of wandering the strip. It doesn't keep anyone from providing their own entertainment.

And it isn't condescending. It's polite. It's TW trying to make sure our shared community provides space for anyone connected to it.

I think it's a great idea.

[TheCotMan]

Re: Defcon Wifes Club

Hey, I know what you're trying to say here, but it's diagonal to the point I was making. I object to the idea that we'd making some sort of event for spouses, of any persuasion. I'm still trying to get over the sour taste of someone looking for entertainment for the little woman. It's just so damned condescending. It may not have been the intent, but there it is.

On the one hand, it's good for us all to broaden our horizons now and then. It's good to get out and see other things than just the con (although I'd rather see outdoor stuff than the sights of vegas, such as they are).

On the other, there's no good thing that can come out of trying to provide entertainment for people who are wanting attention from attendees without finding entertainment within defcon itself. Feh. I'm just rambling, and trying to juggle too many things at once right this minute, but I think you still get the drift.

Ahhhh. Yes. Sorry about that. I was reading something totally different in your reply, and didn't get this. Thanks for clarifying.

Now I think I understand where you were going.