Defcon Wifes Club

[converge]

Re: Defcon Wifes Club

I'm not so sure that the objection is to SOs finding other things to do while in Vegas, but more of the specific advertisement to "bring your SO and maybe they'll catch on'. I agree that just borders on silly.

DC10: I had no strings attached, future wife was at defcon but I pretty much didn't know her outside of misc irc interaction
DC11: I had no strings attached, met my wife as a friend, chatted from time to time poolside and with other friends, but otherwise was free to roam con
DC12: We were growingly close, getting engaged, and all that jazz; we attended con as more as a unit, but still split from time to time. Our friend-base was still manageably similar, had similar con interests, and otherwise enough con-estate to coordinate a joint attempt.
DC13: I was mia due to work/finance/life related pain, now married and trying to make ends meet, just shy of returning to the tech world
DC14: Friendbase grown exponentially for both of us and interests shifted considerably, we spent much of the con trying to do things together but had a really rough time pulling it off, at the cost of our sanity and for her at the cost of having much of a good time at all.
DC15: We approached this con with the idea that we would probably not see each other at all; I geared to blackhat, wireless village, LosT mystery box, and an unmanageable subset of friends, her taking more interest in doing less-tech things with another huge subset of friends. We have too many friends; I came to realization this con that I can't in any respect spend time with all my friends now... it kinda blows. Guess I just have to go to more cons now! But I digress, by approaching the con seperately, we met up from time to time and discovered we were both having a blast. It's not that either of us were less deserving of being at Defcon than the other, not that either of us wanted to be there more or less than the other .. just that our intent for time in Vegas differed.

I saw TW open this thread as a channel to help him and his SO find a better means of enjoying con-time. I'm pretty sure he was not seeking to demean her, other women, other SOs, or the french army. I'm also pretty sure he wasn't aiming to attract as many non-Defcon folks to Defcon as possible in a Vegas buffering spirit.

The idea is that for those in attendance that don't take interest in all, any, or enough of the festivities of con... why not hook them up so that they can have a good time in Vegas doing other Vegas things, other con things, or whatnot... that way both parties can enjoy the time equally instead of one feeling like the caretaker for the other.

Something worth noting is that a list, forum, or channel of communication would help folks attain that friendship between now and next con. A means of communication amoung each other that would otherwise be incongruent with discussions that occur on existing Defcon mediums. What would be the most inclusive?

[TechnoWeenie]

Re: Defcon Wifes Club

I saw TW open this thread as a channel to help him and his SO find a better means of enjoying con-time. I'm pretty sure he was not seeking to demean her, other women, other SOs, or the french army.

well.. the French are just too easy.. no need to do what they do themselves.


those that know me, know that I have nothing but the best intentions.

tw

[Deviant Ollam]

Re: Defcon Wifes Club

converge, i think that you and mfreeck are outstanding together... but most of all what is outstanding is how you can function well apart, too. that is one of the most satisfying things to find in a relationship with someone... a person whom you don't feel the need to babysit and whom you can be all lovey-dovey with when you're together but don't have a problem with leaving on the other side of the room/hotel/city/planet whenever life calls you that direction.

you two are great, and i appreciate so much how your flexible and healthy relationship lets you be able to work, party, and generally be a part of the lives of those who dig you... folks like me.

was great getting to hang with you at defcon, as always, and i hope that if kids are ever a part of your futures that you manage the situation with as much flexibility and candor and freedom as you do with things as they are now.

[converge]

Re: Defcon Wifes Club

.. nothing but the best intentions

Don't get me wrong here.. I am not the guy to stop these hot women from burning their bras; just trying to add a little context to the thread that some folks appear to be missing.

Thanks Deviant, I'm a lucky guy :) You're one of several folks I wish I had more time to chill with this year; at least we got to rock out to the minibosses together!

[Grendel]

We need to do this

Ok, I know I'm about to get long-winded here, but this year I brought my wife at her urging. She is not into computers like I am and there were parts of the Con where she was extremely bored. Her overall experience was very positive, and she's already talking about next year (a VERY good sign, IMO).

However, these are the things that negatively affected her having fun specifically at DefCon:

1) She likes lockpicking, but not 3 days worth
2) She enjoyed watching me speak, but even my speech bored her (she couldn't stop yawning)
3) She wasn't interested in any of the talks; so, often she just sat against the wall while I participated in CtF
4) She found out there was an International Belly Dance Convention going on at the same time down at South Point and spent time there as well (alone)
5) She didn't know anybody and didn't really want to seek others out, mostly because she's not really into what goes on at DefCon (other than the parties)

Once I saw this thread, I realized that creating (at the least) a forum for those who are coming on the arm of their SO would be a great idea. If this also included a get-together at least once (like at the beginning of the event), she would have an opportunity to meet others and perhaps have an even greater time.

I see DefCon as a couple things:
- An opportunity to learn
- An opportunity to meet people with similar interests

But for my wife, until she meets others who have interests other than "computer stuff" (her words), she won't have as great an experience as she might. If a forum was created to connect people specifically like her, she would undoubtedly have a fantastic time since she likes meeting people.

I know that this was suggested by someone else, so I want to voice my support for at least a new forum for those who are attending DefCon, but may not really be interested in DefCon per se. I also support a get-together as well. If this is just an idea being bantered about and someone needs to step forward to take charge, then consider me stepping forward. If someone else is willing to take charge, then I'm here to help.

I'll do anything to make her time at DefCon 16 more fulfilling.

- Grendel

[honey]

Re: Defcon Wifes Club

I completely disagree wit this idea.

If and only if a place is setup called “train the 194itches”.

I am a hardcore computer LAMER AND a woman. It IS possible to encourage interest in teh womenz. LETS DO THAT.

Think about all you could share with them, if they could be converted.

People, men and women alike are interested in “knowing”, unless they are lemmings.

I don’t agree that there should a place for wives to meet up and go “shopping” unless they are shopping at CompUSA or RAdioshackityShack.

These women need to be trained as electronic female warriors. Train em’ up. Start feeding them pdfs on basic computer stuff and encourage them.

I say PREPARE your womenz for the con. DOIT NOW

If THIS could be accomplished, it would be the best of both worlds for ALL.

[Schuyler]

Re: Defcon Wifes Club

wtf

I do not want to see this thread get derailed from it's original purpose because of some semantic bullshit. We all agree that this isn't being aimed at women specifically, yes? Despite the unfortunate title.

I don't believe anyone here is lookin' to weaponize da wiminfolkz.

[TheCotMan]

Re: Defcon Wifes Club

It is not sidetracked.

The topic is still open, and I've been talking to TW outside of this too.

It sounds like there is support for this.

If a new forum is created for this, should it be user-subscribe-able like /dev/random?

What should the focus of the forum be? Are there people wiling to be "welcome wagons" for people that join to discuss this kind of stuff in the forums? How do we determine its success or failure? How long should it remain before any decisions are made?

[octalpus]

Re: Defcon Wifes Club

Those who know me and my adamant hatred of scenewhores probably expect me to jump on the "this is stupid" bandwagon. This isn't about scenewhores, though. TW's wife is an amazing woman whose first experience in the US was Defcon. Imagine being in a foreign country where you barely know the language, having no idea of the culture, and getting dropped into the middle of Defcon. She has been ridiculously tolerant and I know she's not the only one out there who has gone to these lengths to appease a spouse.

The simple fact is that we're getting old. We've got careers, mortgages, and SO's - not all of whom are interested in what we do. They go out of their way to be supporting, but do they really need to miss out on what could be a fun weekend exploring Vegas just so we can feel better about our status as women in this community? There are the fortunate few who have SO's who are actively involved in this, but many more have no interest whatsoever and are only trying to support something they know is important to their partner.

If I were on the other side of this, I know for a fact that I wouldn't want to be left at home while my SO was off galavanting around Vegas with his drunkard friends. I also can't imagine that I'd want to be in a press of people with whom I have no common interests.

I am secure enough with myself and my standing in this community to know that someone else's SO who is there to support his/her partner is not a threat to me or my reputation. I think this is a great opportunity to recognise the sacrifices our partners make to support our fringe lifestyle and let them have a little fun as well. IMNHSO, I say we tweak the name a bit and lend some assistance to helping these important people get together and have as much fun as we do.

[Stypica]

Re: Defcon Wifes Club

The simple fact is that we're getting old. We've got careers, mortgages, and SO's - not all of whom are interested in what we do. They go out of their way to be supporting, but do they really need to miss out on what could be a fun weekend exploring Vegas just so we can feel better about our status as women in this community? There are the fortunate few who have SO's who are actively involved in this, but many more have no interest whatsoever and are only trying to support something they know is important to their partner.

That sums it up quite nicely. I had been discussing this thread with my wife and she brought it up to LosT's wife - they both think it's a brilliant idea to help facilitate the meet-up of the SOs before con. Neither of them care at all what we do, but they want to support us in our endeavors. And if we are taking a trip to vegas, they would like to take a trip as well.

Defcon Widow[er]s club is more like it:)

The original plan for myself, LosT and Acidica was for the three of us to come to defcon this year while our sweeties went off and did their own thing. When the other two had to cancel for different reasons, my wife decided "ok, I'm just gonna go to disneyland for batsday then." Had she known other people who would be in vegas she may have stayed.

The concept that we would organize stuff for them to do is a little silly - they'll find whatever it is they want to do and do it, it's just a matter of facilitating the conversation and a place to meet.

[sk00t]

Re: Defcon Wifes Club

Honey: I don't think the problem people want to solve is converting / training / teaching. That's what DefCon is, and it's already there in spades for those who want it, of any gender / orientation.

In my case, my SO is waay smarter than I, with the creds to prove it, but her field is not tech, so there's not much at DC for her. I wouldn't expect her to sit through talks or whatever any more than she'd expect me to do the same when I've tagged along with her to cons for her stuff.

So... Something for her and other "hacker widows / widowers" to do would be cool, whatever it might be.

With so many people coming each year, and as Octal pointed out, so many of us getting older (Priest pushing a stroller! Wow!), there are probably hundreds of such people walking around Vegas by themselves during DC. Seems the problem is just getting them all in one room.

I will say for my part it's not likely my SO will be attending until DC17 or so, when my little hacklings are big enough to either stay with grandma or make CTF quals.

[TheCotMan]

Re: Defcon Wifes Club

if enough of them could talk about what there is to do in Las Vegas, they might form their own groups, and find things to do at Con as well as outside of con.

[TheCotMan]

Re: Defcon Wifes Club

Ok. I have added a poll. Choose.

[Thorn]

Re: Defcon Wifes Club

Both my wife and I think this is a great idea.

My wife attended this year for the first time. While she had little interest in DC itself, she came because of travel plans we had in the following week. She did attend a few DC events and liked them well enough, but it really wasn't for her. There were a some things she found some things to do in Vegas, but did comment that a group of other "DC Significant Others" getting together for activities (e.g. a trip to the Hoover Dam, or going to see the Bodies exhibit) might have made such activities a bit less expensive and perhaps lonely. Anything that can help the SOs in getting together would be good.

[shrdlu]

Re: Defcon Wifes Club

Both my wife and I think this is a great idea.

My wife attended this year for the first time. While she had little interest in DC itself, she came because of travel plans we had in the following week. She did attend a few DC events and liked them well enough, but it really wasn't for her. There were a some things she found some things to do in Vegas, but did comment that a group of other "DC Significant Others" getting together for activities (e.g. a trip to the Hoover Dam, or going to see the Bodies exhibit) might have made such activities a bit less expensive and perhaps lonely. Anything that can help the SOs in getting together would be good.

I'm glad to see the suggestion of a subscribable area, where those that are interested (significant others, whether they are wives, husbands, adult children, parents, and so on) can get together and discuss one or more potential side trips. My late husband went with me to a few conferences, and once the novelty wore off (and it wore off *quick*), he was glad to go on the whale watching trip (in Monterey), and visit Hoover Dam (during a long ago Defcon).

It needs organization, and hopefully by having a forum, there will be some who will undertake the planning of some event or other. Pity "Notacon" is already taken; that would have been funny. I saw (back a few posts ago) a suggestion for SOCon. Probably no need to call it anything, except perhaps "The Defcon Alternative."

On another note, I am personally opposed to any type of badge being issued, other than the standard one, unless the fee's the same. There are plenty of common areas where meet ups can take place, for those who aren't into talks or contests or other events. No second class citizens at defcon, please. Well, except for Dateline reporters...