Lockpicking question

[TheCotMan]

i don't know if you're accurate on that one. i live in NJ so i've researched the laws pretty thoroughly. in fact, state laws are covered in my presentation.

My post

Hit on search of New Jersey Laws on Lock/Ignition bypass for cars of which lockpicks may be included.

(UPDATED THROUGH P.L. 2005, c.92 AND JR6.)
TITLE 2C THE NEW JERSEY CODE OF CRIMINAL JUSTICE
2C:5-6. Motor vehicle master keys

a. Any person who knowingly possesses a motor vehicle master key or device designed to operate a lock or locks on motor vehicles or to start a motor vehicle without an ignition key is guilty of a crime of the fourth degree.

b. Any person who offers or advertises for sale, sells or gives to any person other than those excepted in subsection c. a motor vehicle master key or device designed to operate a lock or locks on a motor vehicle or to start a motor vehicle without an ignition key is guilty of a crime of the fourth degree.

c. Subsection a. shall not apply to a law enforcement officer, constable, locksmith or dealer, distributor or manufacturer of motor vehicles or motor vehicle locks, a garage keeper, or a person engaged in the business of lending on the security of motor vehicles, or in the business of acquiring by purchase evidence of debt secured by interests in motor vehicles, and his employees and agents.
...

If you are not one of the people in the professions of "c", and you have lockpicks (which can be used to start the ignition of an automobile,or other locks on an automobile) then Lockpicks fall into this category.

As for "pins on both sides" many cars do not have operating pins on both sides. The keys are "conveinience cut" to be inserted both ways and still function. Though there are some cars that have double pins.

[Deviant Ollam]

b. Any person who offers or advertises for sale, sells or gives to any person other than those excepted in subsection c. a motor vehicle master key or device designed to operate a lock or locks on a motor vehicle or to start a motor vehicle without an ignition key ... If you are not one of the people in the professions[listed above] and you have lockpicks (which can be used to start the ignition of an automobile,or other locks on an automobile) then Lockpicks fall into this category.

i can see how this could be interpreted in such a way, but i doubt highly that there's any case law to back this up. the statute clearly reads as though it was written to apply to individuals engaged in auto theft. while it is true that traditional lockpicks can in some ways be used in car locks, for the most part automobiles operate very differently than doors (wafers vs. tumblers) and the picks that are specialized for each hardware are very different. i can see your point, but i'm not familiar with anyone ever getting into trouble in NJ over picks.

(hell, Toool-USA is based in NJ and it's where we have our meetings. i sure hope that trouble doesn't rear it's head because of wonky interpretations of the law you've pointed out)

[TheCotMan]

(hell, Toool-USA is based in NJ and it's where we have our meetings. i sure hope that trouble doesn't rear it's head because of wonky interpretations of the law you've pointed out)

I snuck into an ALOA coference in Las Vegas on the same weekend as DefCon a few years back and there was a regional ALOA group that had fliers for around 10 states with laws on lockpicks, and locksmiths.

Some states only mentioned them as valid tools for a locksmith, and others had laws governing the sale of them, and requirements for photo ID or other requirements.

I wish I knew where I put them all, so I could put links to the laws online for each state.


(I also added section "a" above which covers possession of tools, not just sale.)

[Also, I've opened wafer locks with conventional snakes and managed to get into cars too. 0:-) ]

NV - to my vegas people (and to those of us going to DefCon) who the hell knows. your state laws are written in a confusing manner.

I often buy supplies in person with cash at a locksmith supply shop in Las Vegas when I got to DefCon. Last year, I invited a small group of people to come with me, but we were rushed.

The take from these locksmiths was that it was legal for them to sell to anyone who had cash, and legal for people to possess them, but not legal for them to be used in "public" as a locksmith would.

For purchase in LV, NV, they did not require ID, proof of need or anything at the three places I have bought such supplies in LV.

Some states have laws that will cause your crime to be considered a greater offense if you are caught with them in your possession while trespassing, or B&E and can get you classified differently as a criminal.

When I find specific laws for NV, I'll put them below here.
Locksmith licenses are handed out by each county. Definitions.
locksmiths and master keys for cars-- NOT lockpicks
Searches for "locksmith" "lock pick[s]" and "lockpick[s]" gave nothing more.

[Deviant Ollam]

Some states have laws that will cause your crime to be considered a greater offense if you are caught with them in your possession while trespassing, or B&E and can get you classified differently as a criminal.

this is a very good point to mention, too. you raise an excellent issue that many people aren't aware of. the mere posession of pick tools by someone who is engaged in any other illegal activity can up the crime. (Misdemeanor tresspassing becomes felony trespassing, etc)

and remember, crimes like breaking and entering have VERY broad definitions. it's not just smashing open a door or throwing a rock through a window... if there is an old, abandoned factory that you want to explore and all the windows and doors are boarded up except one (a doorway that, say, homeless people use to go in and out that has a piece of plywood only propped up against the building and not fixed with nails) the mere act of "modifying" a barrier (like pushing that loose piece of wood slightly to the side) is enough of a disturbance to the grounds to constitute breaking and entering.

basically, if you are found somewhere that you're not supposed to be, be as certain as possible that you could have wound up there by merely wandering as opposed to directed effort. (also, for all you people who like to "explore" neat places... you know one of the best things you can have on you? a dog leash. rent-a-cops, groundskeepers, even police will often be sympathetic to someone who's trespassing if they're "frantically looking for their dog who saw a squirrel and pulled right off his leash, darting into the woods, blah blah." i've even heard tales -- who knows if they are true -- of urban explorers who have used this trick and wound up with security guards radioing one another and making this large, concerted effort to help "look" for the "lost pup." when it wasn't found, the guards were so sad for the two people involved that they sent them on their way without so much as a verbal scolding about the trespassing. but like i say, that story could be made up.)