Defcon Wifes Club

[TechnoWeenie]

well, we can work on the name later.

Here is the deal, many of us have our wifes out with us for Defcon. Most do not want to participate in the show, many of the attendees do not want to pay just so the wife can sit and bitch about how it sucks.

I am tossing around the idea of have a forum or thread here, where the wifes can spend the next year getting to know each other.. and maybe actually setting up and doing events during con.. OUTSIDE of con. Shoppiing, tours, shows, whatever. A group of them together are not bored... and are not pestering us.

I will work more on this thought later... but eventually will want a couple of wifes to lead the effort. Not male geek bashing, but setting it up, tours, etc.. meeting places times.

tw

[TheCotMan]

well, we can work on the name later.

Here is the deal, many of us have our wifes out with us for Defcon. Most do not want to participate in the show, many of the attendees do not want to pay just so the wife can sit and bitch about how it sucks.

I am tossing around the idea of have a forum or thread here, where the wifes can spend the next year getting to know each other.. and maybe actually setting up and doing events during con.. OUTSIDE of con. Shoppiing, tours, shows, whatever. A group of them together are not bored... and are not pestering us.

I will work more on this thought later... but eventually will want a couple of wifes to lead the effort. Not male geek bashing, but setting it up, tours, etc.. meeting places times.

tw

If there is demand for it, a new forum can be made for this, and can be user subscription-based (like /dev/random and the UserCP's "Usergroup" called "All_Social" and could allow for a new group, "Meta-Defcon" or something else as desired.)

[mfreeck]

well, we can work on the name later.

Here is the deal, many of us have our wifes out with us for Defcon. Most do not want to participate in the show, many of the attendees do not want to pay just so the wife can sit and bitch about how it sucks.

I am tossing around the idea of have a forum or thread here, where the wifes can spend the next year getting to know each other.. and maybe actually setting up and doing events during con.. OUTSIDE of con. Shoppiing, tours, shows, whatever. A group of them together are not bored... and are not pestering us.


Hello, this your friendly neighborhood politically correct arm waver.

I see what you're trying to accomplish here and I think it's cool. But seriously, you've GOT to come up with a better name. I agree that the group will be primarily comprised of females, but believe it or not some males really aren't into tech (I've bored more than one to tears) and not all of the females will be wives.
Undefcon? OtherCon? Or (heh) Undef (fits the political correct correct quotient nicely).

BTW, I'm sure some have no interest whatsoever in defcon, but I bet some of those "uninterested wives of defcon" might like to learn more about tech but are a bit intimidated to be dumped in a sea of geeks that laugh at them for being newbies and figure if they aren't techy, they must be there for the scenewhoring. Maybe they'd like some Geek101 so they can have a clue and feel a bit more comfortable at Defcon.

[Abby_Normal]

Hello, this your friendly neighborhood politically correct arm waver.

I see what you're trying to accomplish here and I think it's cool. But seriously, you've GOT to come up with a better name.

Yeah, I have to agree, that was my first thought as well.

How about Matecon?

[converge]

One would like to think that the pendulum could swing several ways on this.. but I would suspect the number of men falling into the category to be considerably lesser. Also of note is the beginning text of "well, we can work on the name later."

I think the idea is worth pursuing .. whatever people want to politically correctly call it.

[mfreeck]

One would like to think that the pendulum could swing several ways on this.. but I would suspect the number of men falling into the category to be considerably lesser. Also of note is the beginning text of "well, we can work on the name later."

Yes, I noted that. Then the post went on to make many mentions of "wives" not interested in defcon(aka tech) and maybe they should all go shopping and "not [pester] us."

I was being polite.


I think the idea is worth pursuing .. whatever people want to politically correctly call it.

I agree that the idea is a good one and I know TW had only the best intentions with his post. Just saying that females hear "maybe you should just take your pretty self off shopping while I do man's work" far too frequently to let it go when hearing even a whisper of it from their community.

[Deviant Ollam]

i wish folk all the best in planning/organizing a scene like this if it makes some people happy or makes their lives easer... but for the life of me i can't figure out why you'd want to bring someone along all the way to DefCon if they are so out of the loop that all they would do is sit around and complain. if that's the case, let them stay home for god's sake and get a well-deserved weekend apart from one another. :wink:

[mfreeck]

i wish folk all the best in planning/organizing a scene like this if it makes some people happy or makes their lives easer... but for the life of me i can't figure out why you'd want to bring someone along all the way to DefCon if they are so out of the loop that all they would do is sit around and complain. if that's the case, let them stay home for god's sake and get a well-deserved weekend apart from one another. :wink:

I think it may be "I want to be with you syndrome." I had a mild touch of this last year and as people can attest, I had a WAY better time at con once I got over it. Folks want to spend time with their loved one, want to be involved in their love's interests, only to find out... they are a third wheel which is never fun.

Also, if there are small munchkins involved, maybe said spouse doesn't want to be stuck at home with no vacation at all. Even they were promised a later vacation, maybe they wouldn't be confident/too budget-concious/too busy to leave somewhere on their own. There are serious problems with that sentence, but you get the gist.

[DJ Jackalope]

Maybe a new forum called "Disinterested in Defcon?"

[Chris]

I'd like to see a wives (fuck you and your political correctness) badge. Something cheap that wouldn't allow them into the talks but they could still check out the common areas, vendor area, parties, skyboxes, etc.

One of my friends brought his wife out and since he is a Goon he could get her in to things but joe average attendee isn't always so lucky.

Thoughts?

[mfreeck]

I'd like to see a wives (fuck you and your political correctness) badge. Something cheap that wouldn't allow them into the talks but they could still check out the common areas, vendor area, parties, skyboxes, etc.


Wouldn't every scenewhore buy that? Also, wouldn't poor attendees buy that then try to sneak into talks, making life hard for the door goons?

[mfreeck]

Maybe a new forum called "Disinterested in Defcon?"

DisCon!

<lengthen message to 10 characters please>

[TechnoWeenie]

OK.. to clarify

I would like to see some kind of group of folks that go to LasVegas every year to be with thier partners, yet do not wish to attend defcon functions, that are willing to meet and do events.

Would this work for all? do not know.. Do I want to do it? NO.. would I love for someone else to? Absolutely.

would it make working defcon (long hours) the parties (networking - drinking) much easier if our partners had something to do while we are working. Meet and greets, lunch, shows.. whatever...

TW

[converge]

I'd like to see a wives ... badge I'd think twice about that ... it could attract an undertone of folks that come without any interest in talks, have the side effect of major annoyance on goons guarding talk doors, and otherwise just be more admin overhead. On top you start parcelling portions of Defcon instead of the conference as a whole; something that could be quite a slippery slope toward the 'experience' guarantee tards.

Nicely intended idea, but definitely logistical issues. Now.. a method for the DisCon Tent to identify club members.. that could be done via badge, sticker, rubber stamp to the forehead...

Wouldn't every scenewhore buy that? I know I would.. then I could hook up with the hot haxors at a discount rate.

[sk00t]

SOCon? Name's not to be politically correct, don't want to exclude gf's, or husbands for that matter. :)

Credit where credit's due, someone (you know who you are) was talking about this Sunday at the bar and came up with the above name.

[Mike]

This is smart. The last two times i was in Las Vegas for cons (SANS and BH07 / DC15), i brought my wife along. She hung out around the hotel pool, slept late, played blackjack, etc, while i was in class / watching presentations. But here's the thing -- next year, she wants to come to Defcon too. Not as a "wife-badger" but as a full-fledged attendee.

So encouraging spouses to come along and hang out outside Defcon one year could lead to them shelling out $100 the following year.

[Chris]

I'd think twice about that ... it could attract an undertone of folks that come without any interest in talks, have the side effect of major annoyance on goons guarding talk doors, and otherwise just be more admin overhead. On top you start parcelling portions of Defcon instead of the conference as a whole; something that could be quite a slippery slope toward the 'experience' guarantee tards.

Nicely intended idea, but definitely logistical issues. Now.. a method for the DisCon Tent to identify club members.. that could be done via badge, sticker, rubber stamp to the forehead...



Yeah...you are probably right. It isn't like $100 is a ridiculously high admission price anyway, especially considering what you get for it. Move along...my idea sucked.

[Deviant Ollam]

personally, i'd think it hilarious if a small run of hot pink "scenewhore" badges were produced that would be equal on paper to "human" ones in terms of cost, privileges etc. wonder how many folks would ask for them as opposed to "human" ones. of that group, how many would be asking ironically versus actually wanting to proclaim oneself a defcon groupie?

[TheCotMan]

personally, i'd think it hilarious if a small run of hot pink "scenewhore" badges were produced that would be equal on paper to "human" ones in terms of cost, privileges etc. wonder how many folks would ask for them as opposed to "human" ones. of that group, how many would be asking ironically versus actually wanting to proclaim oneself a defcon groupie?

There would be advantages to having a "SceneWhore" Badge, as people would likely not ask you questions. On the other hand, it might be more difficult to score access to parties.

[Chris]

There would be advantages to having a "SceneWhore" Badge, as people would likely not ask you questions. On the other hand, it might be more difficult to score access to parties.

Errr....I bet the opposite. You walk in with a scenewhore badge I bet you get in to all the parties.

[mfreeck]

Errr....I bet the opposite. You walk in with a scenewhore badge I bet you get in to all the parties.

Depends if you have penis or boobs. Wonder what happens if you have both?

[TheCotMan]

Errr....I bet the opposite. You walk in with a scenewhore badge I bet you get in to all the parties.

Me? Naw. To have a party bouncer let a scenewhore into a party, weighing the "do-ability" of the scenewhore in question would be part of the equation. They'd take one look at me and say something like, "Obviously you aren't smart enough to be a Human, but your are not pretty (or handsome) enough to be a scenewhore at this party. Why don't you go over to the Alexis Park? They have a place for you at Pool 2."

Depends if you have penis or boobs. Wonder what happens if you have both?

Since you were replying to Chris, I am guessing that the "you" you are referring to is Chris. So, are you asking if Chris had boobs and a penis, and was a scenewhore, what would the outcome be?

Dang. That is a ballsy question to ask Chris. I don't think I would even try asking him that.

Prodigy: "I'm a fire starter" ... "troublemaker" ... "Instigator." Heh-heh. ]:>

[DJ Jackalope]

You guys rock, its nice having a good snicker before I go to sleep.

Maybe ask the scenewhores for "Papers Please" on their med records...

[shrdlu]

This is smart. The last two times i was in Las Vegas for cons (SANS and BH07 / DC15), i brought my wife along. She hung out around the hotel pool, slept late, played blackjack, etc, while i was in class / watching presentations. But here's the thing -- next year, she wants to come to Defcon too. Not as a "wife-badger" but as a full-fledged attendee.

So encouraging spouses to come along and hang out outside Defcon one year could lead to them shelling out $100 the following year.

Not picking on you personally, but let me just say how truly insulting this is, both to the women who come to defcon in their own right, and to spouses in general that are able to provide their own entertainment without needing hand holding. If the original post had just used (or misused, actually, since the word is wives, not wifes) the word the once, it would have been annoying, but the original post went on and on.

There are plenty of couples that come to defcon where both people have their own interests. You don't have to have the security skills to appreciate Richard Thieme or Jennifer Grannick, you just need to be smart. My daughter's been to more defcons than several of you in this thread, and while she has some serious skills, they don't involve programming.

If you want to bring along your spouse, and they aren't interested in the con, fine, but let's not make this a family show. Vegas already tried that, and it sucked. Either make plans to spend time with them outside of the con, or leave them at home, but lets not be planning the entertainment, here.

[Mike]

Why are you assuming my wife wouldn't be interested in the content of the conference? That's precisely why she wants to come next year. My point was that other SOs who come by, get pulled in by the halo effect, pick up the conference booklet and flip through it, etc, might realize that they too have an actual legitimate interest in what goes on inside. Not some watered-down, family-style Camp Defcon, but the actual real thing.

[TheCotMan]

...but lets not be planning the entertainment, here.

Yes, I know I am taking this out of context, but please bear with me.

Boombox and were in Las Vegas for 7 days, and visited several shows. There was a thread here where people discussed non-defcon entertainment to enjoy before and after defcon. I learned about the Pinball Museum and the Atomic Testing Museum as a result of discussions about non-defcon entertainment.

I realize your comment seemed to be within the scope of, "entertainment for other people not affiliated with defcon," but I wanted to show how generic non-defcon entertainment discussions informed me about the Atomic Testing Museum that I did visit this year.

Perhaps people disinterested in Defcon share similar interests. I have no experience with the population or elemental count of intersected interests between non-Defcon people during defcon, but I can say that with many Defcon people there are shared interests in non-defcon items. (Penn and Teller for example.) Is it possible that NotDefcon people will share non-Defcon interests? Sure. How many intersections exist with count of elements close to count of element in NotDefcon people, I have no idea.

[shrdlu]

Yes, I know I am taking this out of context, but please bear with me.

Hey, I know what you're trying to say here, but it's diagonal to the point I was making. I object to the idea that we'd making some sort of event for spouses, of any persuasion. I'm still trying to get over the sour taste of someone looking for entertainment for the little woman. It's just so damned condescending. It may not have been the intent, but there it is.

On the one hand, it's good for us all to broaden our horizons now and then. It's good to get out and see other things than just the con (although I'd rather see outdoor stuff than the sights of vegas, such as they are).

On the other, there's no good thing that can come out of trying to provide entertainment for people who are wanting attention from attendees without finding entertainment within defcon itself. Feh. I'm just rambling, and trying to juggle too many things at once right this minute, but I think you still get the drift.

[TheCotMan]

Hey, I know what you're trying to say here, but it's diagonal to the point I was making. I object to the idea that we'd making some sort of event for spouses, of any persuasion. I'm still trying to get over the sour taste of someone looking for entertainment for the little woman. It's just so damned condescending. It may not have been the intent, but there it is.

On the one hand, it's good for us all to broaden our horizons now and then. It's good to get out and see other things than just the con (although I'd rather see outdoor stuff than the sights of vegas, such as they are).

On the other, there's no good thing that can come out of trying to provide entertainment for people who are wanting attention from attendees without finding entertainment within defcon itself. Feh. I'm just rambling, and trying to juggle too many things at once right this minute, but I think you still get the drift.

Ahhhh. Yes. Sorry about that. I was reading something totally different in your reply, and didn't get this. Thanks for clarifying.

Now I think I understand where you were going.

[Schuyler]

I understand where you're going, but I believe you're demonizing a good idea.

Here's my perspective:
My "little woman" is far and away the most supportive person in my life in regard to anything, but specifically locksport (which is what lands me at DEFCON) and I desperately wanted her to be with me this year and plan to bring her next year. It would make my year for her to attend my talk, or watch me compete in the skillz competition, or be up in the LPV picking alongside me.

When we come back next year, we're definitely getting her a badge so she can do all those things. We'll also plan some time before or after the Con to visit vegas and see what there is to see. That said?

DEFCON IS 3 DAYS LONG!

And she has other interests, unrelated to locksport, unrelated to anything at defcon. Aside from the specific in-con events, and maybe meals, we'll be apart for the better part of the weekend. Las Vegas, by yourself, can be a wicked lonely place. I think the idea of having a spouse/significant other-led subforum where they can have the option of planning or participating in outside-of-con events, like catching a matinée or going gambling as a group, is entirely valid.

When any of us walks in to DC, we suddenly have 10,000 friends excited to geek-out with us for 3 days, and while I've always found the LP community extremely welcoming and I'm sure the hacker community is as well, you KNOW that if you weren't either raised in that culture or share the common interests, you walk in to con basically alone.

I don't know why you have such a problem with TW's suggestion of a spouse-LED group, providing an option for people. This doesn't preclude anyone from showing up to DC instead of wandering the strip. It doesn't keep anyone from providing their own entertainment.

And it isn't condescending. It's polite. It's TW trying to make sure our shared community provides space for anyone connected to it.

I think it's a great idea.

[Mel]

WifeCon 2008

[converge]

I'm not so sure that the objection is to SOs finding other things to do while in Vegas, but more of the specific advertisement to "bring your SO and maybe they'll catch on'. I agree that just borders on silly.

DC10: I had no strings attached, future wife was at defcon but I pretty much didn't know her outside of misc irc interaction
DC11: I had no strings attached, met my wife as a friend, chatted from time to time poolside and with other friends, but otherwise was free to roam con
DC12: We were growingly close, getting engaged, and all that jazz; we attended con as more as a unit, but still split from time to time. Our friend-base was still manageably similar, had similar con interests, and otherwise enough con-estate to coordinate a joint attempt.
DC13: I was mia due to work/finance/life related pain, now married and trying to make ends meet, just shy of returning to the tech world
DC14: Friendbase grown exponentially for both of us and interests shifted considerably, we spent much of the con trying to do things together but had a really rough time pulling it off, at the cost of our sanity and for her at the cost of having much of a good time at all.
DC15: We approached this con with the idea that we would probably not see each other at all; I geared to blackhat, wireless village, LosT mystery box, and an unmanageable subset of friends, her taking more interest in doing less-tech things with another huge subset of friends. We have too many friends; I came to realization this con that I can't in any respect spend time with all my friends now... it kinda blows. Guess I just have to go to more cons now! But I digress, by approaching the con seperately, we met up from time to time and discovered we were both having a blast. It's not that either of us were less deserving of being at Defcon than the other, not that either of us wanted to be there more or less than the other .. just that our intent for time in Vegas differed.

I saw TW open this thread as a channel to help him and his SO find a better means of enjoying con-time. I'm pretty sure he was not seeking to demean her, other women, other SOs, or the french army. I'm also pretty sure he wasn't aiming to attract as many non-Defcon folks to Defcon as possible in a Vegas buffering spirit.

The idea is that for those in attendance that don't take interest in all, any, or enough of the festivities of con... why not hook them up so that they can have a good time in Vegas doing other Vegas things, other con things, or whatnot... that way both parties can enjoy the time equally instead of one feeling like the caretaker for the other.

Something worth noting is that a list, forum, or channel of communication would help folks attain that friendship between now and next con. A means of communication amoung each other that would otherwise be incongruent with discussions that occur on existing Defcon mediums. What would be the most inclusive?

[TechnoWeenie]

I saw TW open this thread as a channel to help him and his SO find a better means of enjoying con-time. I'm pretty sure he was not seeking to demean her, other women, other SOs, or the french army.


well.. the French are just too easy.. no need to do what they do themselves.


those that know me, know that I have nothing but the best intentions.

tw

[Deviant Ollam]

converge, i think that you and mfreeck are outstanding together... but most of all what is outstanding is how you can function well apart, too. that is one of the most satisfying things to find in a relationship with someone... a person whom you don't feel the need to babysit and whom you can be all lovey-dovey with when you're together but don't have a problem with leaving on the other side of the room/hotel/city/planet whenever life calls you that direction.

you two are great, and i appreciate so much how your flexible and healthy relationship lets you be able to work, party, and generally be a part of the lives of those who dig you... folks like me. :biggrin:

was great getting to hang with you at defcon, as always, and i hope that if kids are ever a part of your futures that you manage the situation with as much flexibility and candor and freedom as you do with things as they are now.

[converge]

.. nothing but the best intentions Don't get me wrong here.. I am not the guy to stop these hot women from burning their bras; just trying to add a little context to the thread that some folks appear to be missing.

Thanks Deviant, I'm a lucky guy :) You're one of several folks I wish I had more time to chill with this year; at least we got to rock out to the minibosses together!

[Grendel]

Ok, I know I'm about to get long-winded here, but this year I brought my wife at her urging. She is not into computers like I am and there were parts of the Con where she was extremely bored. Her overall experience was very positive, and she's already talking about next year (a VERY good sign, IMO).

However, these are the things that negatively affected her having fun specifically at DefCon:

1) She likes lockpicking, but not 3 days worth
2) She enjoyed watching me speak, but even my speech bored her (she couldn't stop yawning)
3) She wasn't interested in any of the talks; so, often she just sat against the wall while I participated in CtF
4) She found out there was an International Belly Dance Convention going on at the same time down at South Point and spent time there as well (alone)
5) She didn't know anybody and didn't really want to seek others out, mostly because she's not really into what goes on at DefCon (other than the parties)

Once I saw this thread, I realized that creating (at the least) a forum for those who are coming on the arm of their SO would be a great idea. If this also included a get-together at least once (like at the beginning of the event), she would have an opportunity to meet others and perhaps have an even greater time.

I see DefCon as a couple things:
- An opportunity to learn
- An opportunity to meet people with similar interests

But for my wife, until she meets others who have interests other than "computer stuff" (her words), she won't have as great an experience as she might. If a forum was created to connect people specifically like her, she would undoubtedly have a fantastic time since she likes meeting people.

I know that this was suggested by someone else, so I want to voice my support for at least a new forum for those who are attending DefCon, but may not really be interested in DefCon per se. I also support a get-together as well. If this is just an idea being bantered about and someone needs to step forward to take charge, then consider me stepping forward. If someone else is willing to take charge, then I'm here to help.

I'll do anything to make her time at DefCon 16 more fulfilling.

- Grendel

[honey]

I completely disagree wit this idea.

If and only if a place is setup called “train the 194itches”.

I am a hardcore computer LAMER AND a woman. It IS possible to encourage interest in teh womenz. LETS DO THAT.

Think about all you could share with them, if they could be converted.

People, men and women alike are interested in “knowing”, unless they are lemmings.

I don’t agree that there should a place for wives to meet up and go “shopping” unless they are shopping at CompUSA or RAdioshackityShack.

These women need to be trained as electronic female warriors. Train em’ up. Start feeding them pdfs on basic computer stuff and encourage them.

I say PREPARE your womenz for the con. DOIT NOW

If THIS could be accomplished, it would be the best of both worlds for ALL.

[Schuyler]

wtf

I do not want to see this thread get derailed from it's original purpose because of some semantic bullshit. We all agree that this isn't being aimed at women specifically, yes? Despite the unfortunate title.

I don't believe anyone here is lookin' to weaponize da wiminfolkz.

[TheCotMan]

It is not sidetracked.

The topic is still open, and I've been talking to TW outside of this too.

It sounds like there is support for this.

If a new forum is created for this, should it be user-subscribe-able like /dev/random?

What should the focus of the forum be? Are there people wiling to be "welcome wagons" for people that join to discuss this kind of stuff in the forums? How do we determine its success or failure? How long should it remain before any decisions are made?

[octalpus]

Those who know me and my adamant hatred of scenewhores probably expect me to jump on the "this is stupid" bandwagon. This isn't about scenewhores, though. TW's wife is an amazing woman whose first experience in the US was Defcon. Imagine being in a foreign country where you barely know the language, having no idea of the culture, and getting dropped into the middle of Defcon. She has been ridiculously tolerant and I know she's not the only one out there who has gone to these lengths to appease a spouse.

The simple fact is that we're getting old. We've got careers, mortgages, and SO's - not all of whom are interested in what we do. They go out of their way to be supporting, but do they really need to miss out on what could be a fun weekend exploring Vegas just so we can feel better about our status as women in this community? There are the fortunate few who have SO's who are actively involved in this, but many more have no interest whatsoever and are only trying to support something they know is important to their partner.

If I were on the other side of this, I know for a fact that I wouldn't want to be left at home while my SO was off galavanting around Vegas with his drunkard friends. I also can't imagine that I'd want to be in a press of people with whom I have no common interests.

I am secure enough with myself and my standing in this community to know that someone else's SO who is there to support his/her partner is not a threat to me or my reputation. I think this is a great opportunity to recognise the sacrifices our partners make to support our fringe lifestyle and let them have a little fun as well. IMNHSO, I say we tweak the name a bit and lend some assistance to helping these important people get together and have as much fun as we do.

[Stypica]

The simple fact is that we're getting old. We've got careers, mortgages, and SO's - not all of whom are interested in what we do. They go out of their way to be supporting, but do they really need to miss out on what could be a fun weekend exploring Vegas just so we can feel better about our status as women in this community? There are the fortunate few who have SO's who are actively involved in this, but many more have no interest whatsoever and are only trying to support something they know is important to their partner.

That sums it up quite nicely. I had been discussing this thread with my wife and she brought it up to LosT's wife - they both think it's a brilliant idea to help facilitate the meet-up of the SOs before con. Neither of them care at all what we do, but they want to support us in our endeavors. And if we are taking a trip to vegas, they would like to take a trip as well.

Defcon Widow[er]s club is more like it:)

The original plan for myself, LosT and Acidica was for the three of us to come to defcon this year while our sweeties went off and did their own thing. When the other two had to cancel for different reasons, my wife decided "ok, I'm just gonna go to disneyland for batsday then." Had she known other people who would be in vegas she may have stayed.

The concept that we would organize stuff for them to do is a little silly - they'll find whatever it is they want to do and do it, it's just a matter of facilitating the conversation and a place to meet.

[sk00t]

Honey: I don't think the problem people want to solve is converting / training / teaching. That's what DefCon is, and it's already there in spades for those who want it, of any gender / orientation.

In my case, my SO is waay smarter than I, with the creds to prove it, but her field is not tech, so there's not much at DC for her. I wouldn't expect her to sit through talks or whatever any more than she'd expect me to do the same when I've tagged along with her to cons for her stuff.

So... Something for her and other "hacker widows / widowers" to do would be cool, whatever it might be.

With so many people coming each year, and as Octal pointed out, so many of us getting older (Priest pushing a stroller! Wow!), there are probably hundreds of such people walking around Vegas by themselves during DC. Seems the problem is just getting them all in one room.

I will say for my part it's not likely my SO will be attending until DC17 or so, when my little hacklings are big enough to either stay with grandma or make CTF quals. :biggrin:

[TheCotMan]

if enough of them could talk about what there is to do in Las Vegas, they might form their own groups, and find things to do at Con as well as outside of con.

[TheCotMan]

Ok. I have added a poll. Choose.

[Thorn]

Both my wife and I think this is a great idea.

My wife attended this year for the first time. While she had little interest in DC itself, she came because of travel plans we had in the following week. She did attend a few DC events and liked them well enough, but it really wasn't for her. There were a some things she found some things to do in Vegas, but did comment that a group of other "DC Significant Others" getting together for activities (e.g. a trip to the Hoover Dam, or going to see the Bodies exhibit) might have made such activities a bit less expensive and perhaps lonely. Anything that can help the SOs in getting together would be good.

[shrdlu]

Both my wife and I think this is a great idea.

My wife attended this year for the first time. While she had little interest in DC itself, she came because of travel plans we had in the following week. She did attend a few DC events and liked them well enough, but it really wasn't for her. There were a some things she found some things to do in Vegas, but did comment that a group of other "DC Significant Others" getting together for activities (e.g. a trip to the Hoover Dam, or going to see the Bodies exhibit) might have made such activities a bit less expensive and perhaps lonely. Anything that can help the SOs in getting together would be good.

I'm glad to see the suggestion of a subscribable area, where those that are interested (significant others, whether they are wives, husbands, adult children, parents, and so on) can get together and discuss one or more potential side trips. My late husband went with me to a few conferences, and once the novelty wore off (and it wore off *quick*), he was glad to go on the whale watching trip (in Monterey), and visit Hoover Dam (during a long ago Defcon).

It needs organization, and hopefully by having a forum, there will be some who will undertake the planning of some event or other. Pity "Notacon" is already taken; that would have been funny. I saw (back a few posts ago) a suggestion for SOCon. Probably no need to call it anything, except perhaps "The Defcon Alternative."

On another note, I am personally opposed to any type of badge being issued, other than the standard one, unless the fee's the same. There are plenty of common areas where meet ups can take place, for those who aren't into talks or contests or other events. No second class citizens at defcon, please. Well, except for Dateline reporters...

[astcell]

Look, we are talking about a human being who can think for themselves not a canary or a Chihuahua. Women can come and get badges or just see the town. The first and second year I went to Defcon (8 and 9) my (ex)wife got badges for free at the bar using basic SE skillz. I think boobies helped. Anyway she only went to the vendor area, but she COULD have gone everywhere.

Having a separate badge will limit where they can go and confuse the already confused security guards. At DC10 she had no badge but took over pool2. At DC 11 and on she found concerts and slot machines.

I say YES we can have a SPOUSE, SO, SCENEWHORE, or other such badge, but it ought to be full access and the same price. But is a spouse also not HUMAN? Maybe the spouse can be HUMAN and we can have HACKER?

[Thorn]

A separate badge isn't particularly needed, but as my wife and I see it, what is needed is some coordination for those SOs who are more interested in activities outside DC, and might want to do those things in groups or even just twos or threes.

[TheCotMan]

If there were people helping to organize this, stickers could easily be added to existing badges, and cheap to buy. There's no reason that such organization would require any official organization. Stickers can be added or removed on a per-user basis.

Since many people that enjoy Defcon, enjoy it when they are actually doing things at Defcon that they enjoy, it is unlikely that we will find any organizers for this among Defcon people.

However, there may be one or more husband, wives, boyfriends, girlfriends, Sig-O, partners, fuck-buddies, InSig-O, or [.*] of Defcon people willing to organize such thoughts.

Do any of you with husbands/wives/boyfriends/girlfriends/* think they are easy-going enough to not exclude others, but have enough organization and desire to organize to want to work with other organizers sharing the same attributes?

[Stypica]

Do any of you with husbands/wives/boyfriends/girlfriends/* think they are easy-going enough to not exclude others, but have enough organization and desire to organize to want to work with other organizers sharing the same attributes?

My wife would not want to be an organizer - she has no patience for that - but she is belligerently friendly. She's also very good at "you guys can sit here and discuss this all day if you want, but I'm doing [stuff] and you are welcome to join me" - vroom... she's nothing, if not decisive ;)

The idea of the DC group doing something official for them is a little demeaning - but a space setup where they could work it out for themselves seems ideal.

[mfreeck]

Since many people that enjoy Defcon, enjoy it when they are actually doing things at Defcon that they enjoy, it is unlikely that we will find any organizers for this among Defcon people.


While I agree with this, I think there's another use of this group that has been overlooked. Once the SOcon has gotten off the ground and organizes fun activities such as seeing shows, gambling at a specific spot/time, dining at a specific restaurant, seeing a certain site, sometimes one of their spouses/SOs from defcon may tag along. Then the friends of said spouse may tag along, etc. It's very possible that these organized outside activities may help supplement defcon goers time at con because most of us at some point DO do something outside the riviera/TBBQ. It may be handy to have a coordinated outside activity, particularly for pre-con.

[TheCotMan]

My wife would not want to be an organizer - she has no patience for that - but she is belligerently friendly. She's also very good at "you guys can sit here and discuss this all day if you want, but I'm doing [stuff] and you are welcome to join me" - vroom... she's nothing, if not decisive ;)

The idea of the DC group doing something official for them is a little demeaning - but a space setup where they could work it out for themselves seems ideal.

Right. I was looking at this like other things at Defcon...
People perceive a need for something new and fill it.
In this case, have the people going to Las Vegas because of Defcon people, find a solution, and if we can provide a forum for them to help them, great!

The problem I see with this, though, is without a person or people (preferably one or more of the people most interested in finding things to do at Defcon) it would flounder and go nowhere.

I don't see this as something that should fall to just one person, but instead to everyone interested in finding things to do when going to Las Vegas with Defcon people.

Heck, this might even apply to cases where parents of Defcon people attending Defcon want to hang out nearby and find something of interest. (How many times have we found parents of 12, 13, 14 or 15 year olds that attend defcon for their kid, and often find the parents more interesting than their kids?)

[Stypica]

The problem I see with this, though, is without a person or people (preferably one or more of the people most interested in finding things to do at Defcon) it would flounder and go nowhere.

Well sure - but then it would be on them. Using the board to facilitate people communicating isn't the same as being responsible for their fun... that would fall onto whomever wanted to participate - if no on does, well, ok. At least when someone says "I want to go with you, but this is so booooring" there is a retort of "we tried - bye now, I'm off to play" :biggrin:

[TheCotMan]

Well sure - but then it would be on them. Using the board to facilitate people communicating isn't the same as being responsible for their fun... that would fall onto whomever wanted to participate - if no on does, well, ok. At least when someone says "I want to go with you, but this is so booooring" there is a retort of "we tried - bye now, I'm off to play" :biggrin:

Of course anyone can provide suggestions, or create opportunities for these people, but these people will probably decide for themselves what they really want to do.

If Defcon people want to encourage certain things that is totally fine, but having them discuss what they want will probably work better than us telling them what they want. ;-)

[goathead]

My SO is a wonderful geek and she was able to attend a con with me. She really enjoyed her time. Besides being immersed in the con, this was one of our twice a year opportunities to travel without the kiddo so we did most things together.

Next time around I imagine we will be taking in some talks together and many separately. I talked to her about this thread just to see what she thought about the potential to connect with some other people during con time to do some non-con activities. She was receptive to the idea of having such an option and communicated that she would rather keep the company of friendly faces than run around vegas solo.

I dont think she'd be keen on any identifiers that flags her as anything other than a regular human, paying attendee... FFS, id wear the 'im with stupid' badge if it came at a major discount.

[Vyrus]

as a person who gave up on emotional contact a long time ago... badges, titles, i don't care, so long as they don't get special treatment simply because "shes the wife" or "SO of so and so so she gets first dibs on $foobar". i have to deal with enough of that crap at parties <_<

[Grendel]

I agree that special badges or titles would be a bad direction to go. All my wife would like out of all this is the ability to meet others that aren't absorbed in DefCon like I am... It's just not her thing, but she does enjoy seeing me happy and will be attending regardless.


as a person who gave up on emotional contact a long time ago... badges, titles, i don't care, so long as they don't get special treatment simply because "shes the wife" or "SO of so and so so she gets first dibs on $foobar". i have to deal with enough of that crap at parties <_<

[TechnoWeenie]

I will kill this part of the thread now.

There will be NO special badges, stickers, notes, pins, secret hand shakes...

TW