Interest in Hardware Hacking Village

[afterburn188]

Re: Interest in Hardware Hacking Village

Any ideas about if/what exactly would be going on at this thing yet? I know there is a group of us traveling to the con who are coming to present a talk on some hardware exploits and would be interested in contributing if at all possible. Just thought I'd offer.

[LosT]

Re: Interest in Hardware Hacking Village

We would welcome any presentations and assistance, talk to Russ or myself when you get to con...

What hardware will you be bringing in tow?

We will be doing uControllers for n00bs, as well as badge hacking, simple I/O basics, etc...the purpose is to get more coders into the hardware arena...

1057

Any ideas about if/what exactly would be going on at this thing yet? I know there is a group of us traveling to the con who are coming to present a talk on some hardware exploits and would be interested in contributing if at all possible. Just thought I'd offer.

[A]

Re: Interest in Hardware Hacking Village

Any ideas about if/what exactly would be going on at this thing yet? I know there is a group of us traveling to the con who are coming to present a talk on some hardware exploits and would be interested in contributing if at all possible. Just thought I'd offer.

You speak of it as an event, when it is more of a place. While we are still figuring out where this space will take us, my view of it at least, is that it is a place for people who have an interest in hardware* to meet, discuss and experiment.

While those of us who are putting it together have some ideas as to where we want to steer the HHV, it is up to those who visit to make it what it will become.

If you have ever found yourself wishing you had access to a soldering iron, or some bench equipment during Defcon? Say you wanted to add on feature X to badge last year, then this should be your first stop. I'm not sure how much equipment we will all be able to bring in, as most of us are flying, we will make sure to at least have power and some work space for you if you bring your own, and hopefully share with your fellow hackers.

If you need somewhere to give a demonstration after your talk, hit myself, l0st or Russ up and we can try to work something out.


*Hardware in this context is loosely defined as systems that interact with the physical word more or less directly. Embedded controllers, sensors, control systems, etc.

[afterburn188]

Re: Interest in Hardware Hacking Village

We would welcome any presentations and assistance, talk to Russ or myself when you get to con...

What hardware will you be bringing in tow?

We will be doing uControllers for n00bs, as well as badge hacking, simple I/O basics, etc...the purpose is to get more coders into the hardware arena...

1057

I shot Russ an email. We will be bringing some Xilinx Spartan 3 demo boards and a couple custom modified WRT54GLs for our presentation. I'll see what else we could bring of some interest. If there is anything in particular you're looking for let me know. We might be able to dig it up in our collection of different stuff. We could even set up and show off our exploits to attract the security minded individuals into sticking around and learning more about it. I don't know it's up to you guys. We just feel that hardware has been getting ignored for years and that's why there is so much to explore :)

I apologize for the miswording. I understand what you mean now and we'll try to bring whatever we can to contribute. I personally would definitely be willing to assist with some uC stuff if need be. Do you know what platform you'll be using? Freescale? TI? 8/16/32bit? What kind of I/O are you thinking? Maybe some RS232 or I2C communication? The possibilities are limitless...

[LosT]

Re: Interest in Hardware Hacking Village

Hardware has been lacking in the hacker community, hence my creation of the Mystery Challenge-

For now we are working on a BS2SX (SX based 16-bit Stamp- keep in mind the audience)- I may be bringing some Altera FPGAs, as well as some other stuff (TI 430s, etc)-

LosT

[afterburn188]

Re: Interest in Hardware Hacking Village

I agree with you about the lacking interest from within the community and commend you on the Mystery Challenge. Now to convince the other members of my group to possibly participate in it

Okay so you're starting off with some stamps. I might be able to bring a few old Motorolla/Freescale HCS08 series demo boards that we have access to. These boards have been used for years for education purposes. Like I said previously, we will have some Spartan 3E Starter Kits for our talk. We'll be glad to set up and show off some of our hardware trojans if you will have us. I think that people should especially enjoy the compromised Linksys WRT54GLs that we have. They will hopefully either excite or spook some interest into the area of hardware...

If there's anything else I can do let me know...

Hardware has been lacking in the hacker community, hence my creation of the Mystery Challenge-

For now we are working on a BS2SX (SX based 16-bit Stamp- keep in mind the audience)- I may be bringing some Altera FPGAs, as well as some other stuff (TI 430s, etc)-

LosT

[Dr.K]

Re: Interest in Hardware Hacking Village

Hey Afterburn188,

I wish to participate in hardware hacking village - I think it is a great idea. What about bringing some hardware along like logic analyzer/scope, microscope and have some setups to show/teach people how something is reverse engineered.

I agree with you about the lacking interest from within the community and commend you on the Mystery Challenge. Now to convince the other members of my group to possibly participate in it

Okay so you're starting off with some stamps. I might be able to bring a few old Motorolla/Freescale HCS08 series demo boards that we have access to. These boards have been used for years for education purposes. Like I said previously, we will have some Spartan 3E Starter Kits for our talk. We'll be glad to set up and show off some of our hardware trojans if you will have us. I think that people should especially enjoy the compromised Linksys WRT54GLs that we have. They will hopefully either excite or spook some interest into the area of hardware...

If there's anything else I can do let me know...

[afterburn188]

Re: Interest in Hardware Hacking Village

LoST/A/Russ,
Would it help if we brought some of this equipment? Do you think this is too much? We have some nice scopes and such that are pretty portable. I don't know if you think this is overkill or what. Like I said, this kind of stuff is specifically what our group does so we have the equipment. It's just a matter of what you guys want and what Dr K wants to bring on the plane. Let us know.

Hey Afterburn188,

I wish to participate in hardware hacking village - I think it is a great idea. What about bringing some hardware along like logic analyzer/scope, microscope and have some setups to show/teach people how something is reverse engineered.

[russ]

Re: Interest in Hardware Hacking Village

Sure, let's bring the hardware. We'll use what we can. Heck, a short presentation on what some of the hardware is and how it works might be useful as well. I would imagine that we're going to have a shortage of soldering irons and such, including protective mats. I know I don't have a mat myself.

So I was just thinking it might be a GOOD idea to have a presentation sign up list for the HHV and LARGE white board that we can put up on a tripod outside the door so people can see what's coming up in the near future.

LoST/A/Russ,
Would it help if we brought some of this equipment? Do you think this is too much? We have some nice scopes and such that are pretty portable. I don't know if you think this is overkill or what. Like I said, this kind of stuff is specifically what our group does so we have the equipment. It's just a matter of what you guys want and what Dr K wants to bring on the plane. Let us know.

[LosT]

Re: Interest in Hardware Hacking Village

Yes, especially since several of us will be going back and forth between the HHV and the contest area...

1057

[russ]

Re: Interest in Hardware Hacking Village

Ok, I think I've seen two volunteers on this list, so far, that are willing to help out. If you've mentioned that you're interested and have NOT email me, please do that. It will make it so much simpler. So, volunteers... email me.... russ (at) defcon (dot) org or vertigo (at) securitytribe (dot) com.

LosT and I are footing the bill on this venture and, based on the current cost, we're probably only going to buy 100 of these kits to sell in the HHV. I haven't gotten any feedback that would make me think we need more and I honestly (as much as I LOVE extra hardware) don't want another 100 of these kits sitting around in my workspace. haha

As for presentation topics, here's a short list I'd like to see. If any of you want to volunteer to give a presentation, post it here or email me. It would be really cool to have a base schedule set up prior to con so all we have to do is fill in the blanks.

- Badge Hacking Basics (Friday afternoon sometime)
- Making the DC16 Badge (Sat... redo from Friday's talk)
- The Kingpin is In (Q&A with Joe Grand) (Sat afternoon sometime)
- Building a BS2 microcontroller
- Basic Electronics
- Understanding Electronics tools (think oscilloscope, multimeter, etc)
- Soldering Basics
- Programming the BS2

As for the actual makeup of the HHV, I'm beginning to think people should bring their own Serial to USB adapters, soldering irons, etc. I know some of the volunteers have mentioned bringing stuff in and potentially being interested in presenting or helping out. Please let me know what your interest level and areas are so we can start planning.

Thanks!
-Russ

[russ]

Re: Interest in Hardware Hacking Village

Oh yeah, as an aside, the PCBs for the BS2 kits will have the Defcon logo printed on them. Just in case you're into that sort of thing. It should look really sweet.

LosT and I are footing the bill on this venture and, based on the current cost, we're probably only going to buy 100 of these kits to sell in the HHV. I haven't gotten any feedback that would make me think we need more and I honestly (as much as I LOVE extra hardware) don't want another 100 of these kits sitting around in my workspace. haha

[afterburn188]

Re: Interest in Hardware Hacking Village

We (CVORG) would like to volunteer to do a presentation or two on hardware trojans and the concepts/tools of reverse engineering. Our presentation can range from being a basic overview to being slightly more detailed. We will also be bringing some big toys (think o-scopes and signal generators) that we would be willing to contribute to the tools presentation. I agree with the idea of having a base schedule since there are many different events we are participating at con. The sooner we can get that outlined, the better.

Another note: The goal of this seems to be to attract people into hardware, and hardware hacking. I personally have been recently giving talks to perspective freshman/high school seniors at our university, attempting to attract them to become an Electrical Engineer. What we've found what works best is short talks, a few demos, and a huge Q&A portion. This allows for you to have a mixed/diverse group of people with different levels of knowledge (Parents, Students, Parents with a EE background) become more informed. I feel if Q&A approaches are stressed a lot more people can be attracted. Also mentioning what kind of hardware hacks have been done that they may already be benefiting from (the hacking of the Linksys WRT54G, the hacking of the XBox via the JTAG interface) will possibly attract some more attention. Just some thoughts to throw around for comment...

As for presentation topics, here's a short list I'd like to see. If any of you want to volunteer to give a presentation, post it here or email me. It would be really cool to have a base schedule set up prior to con so all we have to do is fill in the blanks.

[russ]

Re: Interest in Hardware Hacking Village

The website doesn't come up when I click on the link. The presentations you have in mind sound great! I'm glad this is all coming together. You're absolutely correct about our target audience. When we started the robot contest a few years ago, we really thought it would take off. What we discovered was that 1) Alot of hackers are intimidated or feel ignorant of the hardware side of things and 2) In order to have a contest like this, it has to be evolve and be dynamic. We also need an "entry vector" for those that may be interested but don't want to look silly. That's my goal with the HHV... we ARE that entry vector.

Thanks for your help. Email me if you haven't already.

We (CVORG) would like to volunteer to do a presentation or two on hardware trojans and the concepts/tools of reverse engineering.

[afterburn188]

Re: Interest in Hardware Hacking Village

The website doesn't come up when I click on the link.

whoops....forgot the www in front...here is the new link.

I emailed you a while ago but I will send you another email and CC our group's lead.