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"It is difficult not to wonder whether that combination of elements which produces a machine for labor does not create also a soul of sorts, a dull resentful metallic will, which can rebel at times". Pearl S. Buck -
Re: Anonymous hotel room?
With the amount of paranoia the OP is displaying, it's amazing he's even using such a thing as the inturweb.
Of course, he's probably behind three 'anonymous*' proxies, using someone else's open Wifi.
*anonymous = he doesn't know who runs them, it could even be the feds.A third party security audit is the IT equivalent of a colonoscopy. It's long, intrusive, very uncomfortable, and when it's done, you'll have seen things you really didn't want to see, and you'll never forget that you've had one.Comment
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"It is difficult not to wonder whether that combination of elements which produces a machine for labor does not create also a soul of sorts, a dull resentful metallic will, which can rebel at times". Pearl S. BuckComment
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Re: Anonymous hotel room?
This is kind of silly. If you're already wanted, then *anything* public you do is probably unwise. Going to DEFCON doesn't make it any worse.
Your original quote was:
I'm not an expert in the English language, but by using "just"you're saying in effect: "Going to this event alone is putting yourself at risk." Which is clearly not the same as going while simultaneously already being wanted or under investigation.
So my original question (with my intended clarification) stands:
By the average every day Joe (who is not wanted or under investigation by the authorities) attending DEFCON, what is the risk? And from whom?"\x74\x68\x65\x70\x72\x65\x7a\x39\x38";Comment
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Re: Anonymous hotel room?
It is yet another reason why I don't play,"spot the fed," and is a reason I keep that information to myself. The risk of scaring feds way with exposing who is who on the forums does nothing good, just like exposing other community member identities does nothing good. Exposing anyone has the risk of them not coming back, or coming back with a better proxy.
The only group of people we explicitly mention in the rules as worthy of exposure are those unable to learn from mistakes, or have too little wisdom (such as those that blatantly admit to breaking laws on public forums, and/or request others to help them break laws.) We don't want these people back, so we lose nothing by exposing them. (Just breaking a rule is generally not enough for people to get inducted into Fucktard Hall; generally it requires a pattern and history of failure, multiple rule violations all at the same time, or something like admitting to breaking the law, and/or asking other people to help. It is not like we don't link to the rules several times during the registration process, and additionally link to them at the top of the page and in the FAQ.
We don't want legal issues, because I don't like the idea of having to testify in any court about the chain of evidence with respect to the content on any server of database. I don't like lawyers or people of the media. So long as we don't have content at risk for subpoena, the forums can keep running.
As for guilt by association, would you* really want to work for an employer that applies guilt by association, with a prejudice against hacking, based on the definition of hacking popularized by the media? If so, make sure the people near your cubical play by the rules, or else you could be blamed for their actions by association, too.
(you* : This is a generic "you" to any reader, not the person I started this reply to.)Last edited by TheCotMan; July 7, 2008, 13:05.Comment
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Re: Anonymous hotel room?
First off, I got my room for Defcon covered. Thanks for the offers.
Second, the issue of the feds, cia, kgb, whatever government group involving three letters is quit an interesting one.
In the world of no fly list, watch list, hush orders, patriot act, and AT&T fiber tapping, is it really so hard to get a list of guest from a hotel? I bet someone with a shiny badge stringing out big scary words like "hacker", "possible terrorist", "on your hotel network" could get a guest list without much issue. And since the location of Defcon is known at least a year in advance, paperwork could be started early.
Lots of people here are saying that hotels will not give up this information. They could be right, but I have no way of verifying it. The safe bet (Insert Vegas joke here), would be to assume the info is being pulled and plan for it.
I am trying not to jump on the holey sanctuary that is Defcon, just questioning it like I question everything else.
Third, anyone that thinks the public perception of "hackers" is a good one, has watched too many of the wrong movies. We are not seen as heroes that "Hack the Gibson", but villeins. We are the people that create spyware and send spam. Many think Defcon is a great way to just to arrest everyone at once and let the system work it out. Once I am out of the hotel, my Defcon badge comes off. More then once I had to explain how the Defcon conference was a good for everyone. (I am sure someone will jump on me for not evangelizing the "hacker" way here.) For the general public, hacker != good guy.
That said, if someone was to get pulled in front of a judge and/or jury, having Defcon, Blackhat, or ShmooCon on the list of things one has been at, does not help. The defence of "I don't know how to do that." goes out the window when they point out you could have learned it at Defcon, Blackhat, etc. Mitnick could not use a phone while in prison because some judge was convinced he could launch IEDs by whistling into it, or some such nonsense.
We question things, push the limits, and do stuff just to see what happens. Our art involves dancing on a fine line. A line most of the general population thinks we crossed just by association. This does not work to our favor. (With some exceptions)
Bottom line, it's a lot harder to get off a government list, then it is to get on. I am just trying to stay off it in the first place.Comment
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Re: Anonymous hotel room?
Perhaps you have not done anything to get on the list in the first place?
Having attended a conference is not going to convince a jury of your peers that you are able to launch missiles against the nearest tic-tac-toe playing computer. Shiny badges are the least of my worries at defcon. Pissing off the hotel and taking a visit to a shallow grave ranks higher in my worry list, which is somewhere below being drawn and quartered by the vengeful spirit of Caligula.
And really, if any said agency wanted info on you, wouldn't they just watch you since there are so many at the con in the first place? Why get the hotel involved at all?
I think you are over-romanticizing your artful dance.----------------------------------------
Fraternal Order of Locksport
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A third party security audit is the IT equivalent of a colonoscopy. It's long, intrusive, very uncomfortable, and when it's done, you'll have seen things you really didn't want to see, and you'll never forget that you've had one.Comment
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Re: Anonymous hotel room?
While i agree with most folks here that the Humanator may be going a bit overboard on the tin foil, i can respect anyone who simply has a healthy desire to fly below the radar or live life a bit off the grid.
As much as we are right to point out that there are no men in vans or jack booted thugs running around in the shadows, how many people would understand that -deep down- living a life with as little a paper trail as possible isn't the easiest thing to poke fun at. It's something that many of us may have aspired to do before we had mortgages, kids, or were otherwise forced to get "real" jobs and become tied to numerous public records.
I don't think a useful solution will present itself for anyone wanting to stay in Vegas on their own, but there are any number of methods to slide in the side door with someone else who is footing the bill."I'll admit I had an OiNK account and frequented it quite often… What made OiNK a great place was that it was like the world's greatest record store… iTunes kind of feels like Sam Goody to me. I don't feel cool when I go there. I'm tired of seeing John Mayer's face pop up. I feel like I'm being hustled when I visit there, and I don't think their product is that great. DRM, low bit rate, etc... OiNK it existed because it filled a void of what people want."
- Trent ReznorComment
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