Defcon 17 suggestions

[Olethea]

Re: Defcon 17 suggestions

Umm....how can you be tossing an idea around for years if this was your first defcon? Im new here too but I've felt the wrath of the dc clan...so Im going to be nice and say its probably not going to be a well accepted idea, especially with the REAL women of dc. Somehow I just dont see them liking the idea of saying girls need things dumbed down, or that girls need a non dc related track to keep their attention....

If you arent interested, dont go, if your significant other isnt interested, dont bring them....its that easy.

Actually, what I said was, is that the idea of a girlfriend con has been tossed around for several years - It is not my idea. I am simply working off of that idea. However, (I'd like to hope) that the girls of dc would like to participate - so that way they can get other girls interested. In fact, I believe that they would be the absolute best candidates to talk to other girls about computers, hacking, women in technology, etc.

Also, the girlfriend con isn't necessarily aimed at the girls of dc who do hack, etc.
It is meant for the girlfriends of hackers. So that way, they can attend the con with their boyfriend, but have something to do themselves.
That is also why there would be two different tracks, so that those that are more interested in one area than the other may participate in those types of activities. At the same time however, I'm not saying that anyone has to stick to one track. I am hoping that there are enough things of interest in both tracks for everyone to do!
The main idea of this IS to get your significant other interested in one way or another.

[Dallas]

Re: Defcon 17 suggestions

I think there is room for a presentation on the ins and outs of defcon for all first timers and girlfriends. I just dont think it should be limited to just girlfriends, unless its in a small room upstairs or something. I could see 2 or 3 presentations for first time attendees which would be beneficial. Kind of a joint presentation everyone would get something out of...I think it might be fun.

Might even see if the powers that be could put together some alt-defcon events for the girlfriends - spa, makeovers, whatever upstairs...also could be fun.

Could even start a competition known to be famous at other events, steal the girlfriend contest.. :)

Actually, what I said was, is that the idea of a girlfriend con has been tossed around for several years - It is not my idea. I am simply working off of that idea. However, (I'd like to hope) that the girls of dc would like to participate - so that way they can get other girls interested. In fact, I believe that they would be the absolute best candidates to talk to other girls about computers, hacking, women in technology, etc.

Also, the girlfriend con isn't necessarily aimed at the girls of dc who do hack, etc.
It is meant for the girlfriends of hackers. So that way, they can attend the con with their boyfriend, but have something to do themselves.
That is also why there would be two different tracks, so that those that are more interested in one area than the other may participate in those types of activities. At the same time however, I'm not saying that anyone has to stick to one track. I am hoping that there are enough things of interest in both tracks for everyone to do!
The main idea of this IS to get your significant other interested in one way or another.

[valkyrie]

Re: Defcon 17 suggestions

Yeah, that's really charming.

Integrating spousal units and ftm partners has been tried at DC. Apparently to no avail. If you want to bring your wife/husband/gf//bf/alternate other to DC, please do so. If she/he/it desires a mani/pedi/whole body/boob make over, knock yourself out.

I am not here to convince someone tech is cool. Not you. Not your wife/husband/gf/bf/alternate. Not your kid. I merely show up with my kit (whatever it may be last, this or next year). If someone gets it, they get it. If they don't, well they don't. But please don't ask me to take my time to convince someone who probably has already convinced themselves otherwise that DefCon is cool. Let them go shopping/nag/etcetera.

Now if your unit is really interested in finding out more about all the delicious cyber-candy available? I will knock myself out helping them find things that will spark them. And invite them on the Mayhem run...

fwiw

Regards,

valkyrie

_______________________________________
sapere aude

[Olethea]

Re: Defcon 17 suggestions

I think there is room for a presentation on the ins and outs of defcon for all first timers and girlfriends. I just dont think it should be limited to just girlfriends, unless its in a small room upstairs or something. I could see 2 or 3 presentations for first time attendees which would be beneficial. Kind of a joint presentation everyone would get something out of...I think it might be fun.

Might even see if the powers that be could put together some alt-defcon events for the girlfriends - spa, makeovers, whatever upstairs...also could be fun.

Could even start a competition known to be famous at other events, steal the girlfriend contest.. :)

I agree that it shouldn't be limited to just girlfriends/SOs, etc. It would be great to have events like that for newer people as well (I would have benefited from them).
However, I think it'd be also great to have some gf only portions of the con.
For example, track 1 would be for the alt-defcon events that you've mentioned - spa, makeovers, etc. :)

Haha, not so sure about the "steal a girlfriend contest" - not entirely sure how popular that contest would be. Might not need a contest for something like that anyway :x

[Olethea]

Re: Defcon 17 suggestions

Yeah, that's really charming.

Integrating spousal units and ftm partners has been tried at DC. Apparently to no avail. If you want to bring your wife/husband/gf//bf/alternate other to DC, please do so. If she/he/it desires a mani/pedi/whole body/boob make over, knock yourself out.

I am not here to convince someone tech is cool. Not you. Not your wife/husband/gf/bf/alternate. Not your kid. I merely show up with my kit (whatever it may be last, this or next year). If someone gets it, they get it. If they don't, well they don't. But please don't ask me to take my time to convince someone who probably has already convinced themselves otherwise that DefCon is cool. Let them go shopping/nag/etcetera.

Now if your unit is really interested in finding out more about all the delicious cyber-candy available? I will knock myself out helping them find things that will spark them. And invite them on the Mayhem run...

fwiw

Regards,

valkyrie

_______________________________________
sapere aude

Aye, I've heard that it hasn't been successful so far. Who knows, maybe it was bad timing then. Only time will tell if an event like this will get off of the ground or not.

That's exactly why there would be two different tracks - one of those being for those that are interested in computers, and one for those who aren't.
Also, it certainly wouldn't be in my authority ever to ask you or anyone else to give a talk on something that they themselves aren't interested in. If you wanted to give a talk, for example on some delicious cyber-candy, that would be great! But like I said, I don't have the authority much less desire to ask you to do something that you wouldn't want to do.
I'm really hopeful that there are girls out there who would love to go to a talk like that. I know that I'd be interested! Not only that, but it doesn't have to be a girlfriend con exclusive. The idea is to get the girlfriends interested in going, but for them to have something to go to themselves, but also have open events so that way the girls can go with their guys/girls/hubby/wife/whatever floats your boat.
It'd be a great way to get girls interested, and hopefully they would join the Mayhem run and other regular events eventually.

[faye]

Re: Defcon 17 suggestions

The idea is to get the girlfriends interested in going, but for them to have something to go to themselves, but also have open events so that way the girls can go with their guys/girls/hubby/wife/whatever floats your boat.
It'd be a great way to get girls interested, and hopefully they would join the Mayhem run and other regular events eventually.

If they arent interested in the first place then they can stay at home. If they absolutely must go with their significant other, but arent interested, they can call the hotel and book some time at the spa instead. There are books everywhere listing events/concerts/shows...its not that hard to find something else to do in vegas. If they are interested in going then why would they need something to go to just for them? They should be more than happy with the events already scheduled as I am and so many other females already are.

I really only see this messing things up for females at defcon ...like females at dc arent given a hard time as it is? Having a "girl con" at dc would only make women look like they dont belong, like we need something to get our attention cause we're "not as smart as men at these things".. Im already offended at the idea that you need to dumb shit down for us. I mean damn, if you're interested, go to defcon... if not find an anime convention to go. If you think you need a girlfriend track, then you need to ask yourself whether you belong or not. I agree with Valkryie, Im not there to convince anyone else tech is cool, if they're at DC, they should already feel that way.

Im still a noob, but I kinda think the whole defcon idea was an idea to get the best and brightest from around the world get together and socialize. While I might not fit in completely just yet, theres no way I would go around with some sticker on my badge that tells everyone "Im a dumbass"...and thats exactly the kind of negative attention I see coming from an event like this...everyone with some sort of pink sticker on their badge automatically being labeled a scene whore...as well as any other poor newbie female who is actually at defcon for all the right reasons-because she WANTS to be there for HERSELF... I traveled across the country alone to go and paid for all the expenses on my own...and not because someone dragged me kicking and screaming, but because I really thought the tracks sounded interesting and wanted to meet with other tech minded people smarter than me. If that isnt your motive for going to dc, then why are you there?

If you're female and you want to go to defcon, then by all means...but dont try to get other people to bow down to how special you think you are because you're a chick. You're not the only one. I imagine the women before me who normally attend defcon on their own have worked damn hard to get themselves taken seriously... just as Im sure I'll have to work twice as hard to gain any credibility for myself considering I've already fucked up.

The people who go to defcon are way to smart for their own good and they arent exactly a forgiving crowd...I can personally attest to their wrath. Be careful out there

[DJ Jackalope]

Re: Defcon 17 suggestions

there's some things in this reply that I totally agree with and quite a few that I more than disagree with and make me grumpy to see on screen.

...like females at dc arent given a hard time as it is?

from what I have heard about your actions at con, that's just you.

Having a "girl con" at dc would only make women look like they dont belong, like we need something to get our attention cause we're "not as smart as men at these things"..

What? Women are not as smart as men on tech? Do you know how many people i pwn on a regular basis? WTF.

Im already offended at the idea that you need to dumb shit down for us. I mean damn, if you're interested, go to defcon... if not find an anime convention to go. If you think you need a girlfriend track, then you need to ask yourself whether you belong or not. I agree with Valkryie, Im not there to convince anyone else tech is cool, if they're at DC, they should already feel that way.

With this note.... It does sound like there IS a need for maybe ONE talk for WOMEN, given by women, that is the super basic overview of hacking and terms, how to maybe do some basic hacking, and make the field/industry/hobby less intimidating. It would be something I would be willing to create and do if it came to something like that.

Im still a noob, but I kinda think the whole defcon idea was an idea to get the best and brightest from around the world get together and socialize.

You hit the nail on the head.

While I might not fit in completely just yet, theres no way I would go around with some sticker on my badge that tells everyone "Im a dumbass"...and thats exactly the kind of negative attention I see coming from an event like this...

On the positive swing... how many female friends do you have? I don't have very many, (actually due to this exact problem of not many women in the industry) I would use it to meet as many chicas as i could! It wouldn't matter if you were IN the tech scene, just knowing that you are interested means I'd be willing to teach what I know. I don't picture us sitting there talking about makeup or where we got our nails done, I would picture it talking about exploits or maybe how we made ourselves a better carry on bag by moding it, or pushing each other to do what we want.

but dont try to get other people to bow down to how special you think you are because you're a chick.

If you are the awesome, they will allready do it for you.


my .02. maybe I'll be back for more after jetlag recovery...

[Dallas]

Re: Defcon 17 suggestions

I don't know about the whole talk for girls by girls, but if it helps, id offer to give the non-girl perspective for new attendees. There is so much newbees dont know, hell after 4 years, I don't understand it all. But thats true for most con type events. I think a talk on Friday and one on Saturday would be beneficial for new folks. Might even consider having it on Thursday night. I mean, whats the point of attending a talk for newbies, but then missing the TBBQ, The Summit, and all that?

WAIT..it occurs to me..we live in a youtube world. How about a talk for newbies via youtube(or similar) that we paste together, then have one at the con. I think we could put one together remotely and it would be very helpful.

A video FAQ. Just a thought.

there's some things in this reply that I totally agree with and quite a few that I more than disagree with and make me grumpy to see on screen.



from what I have heard about your actions at con, that's just you.



What? Women are not as smart as men on tech? Do you know how many people i pwn on a regular basis? WTF.




With this note.... It does sound like there IS a need for maybe ONE talk for WOMEN, given by women, that is the super basic overview of hacking and terms, how to maybe do some basic hacking, and make the field/industry/hobby less intimidating. It would be something I would be willing to create and do if it came to something like that.



You hit the nail on the head.



On the positive swing... how many female friends do you have? I don't have very many, (actually due to this exact problem of not many women in the industry) I would use it to meet as many chicas as i could! It wouldn't matter if you were IN the tech scene, just knowing that you are interested means I'd be willing to teach what I know. I don't picture us sitting there talking about makeup or where we got our nails done, I would picture it talking about exploits or maybe how we made ourselves a better carry on bag by moding it, or pushing each other to do what we want.



If you are the awesome, they will allready do it for you.


my .02. maybe I'll be back for more after jetlag recovery...

[signcarver]

Re: Defcon 17 suggestions

The only thing I would wish for a significant other if they really felt they needed their own con is that maybe they could attend the black and white balls and some other evening events (the hackers are people too movie may have been great for some of them) and not need to spend the money on a full badge but still be part of the group after the talks of the day. I seem to remember priest coming in and kicking out everyone without a badge and underage this year during jackalope's set. As I was sitting there I remember thinking that it wasn't crowded at all and to let the people enjoy themselves, at the time they were not causing any trouble... I also have mixed feelings about the underage thing as I don't mind having the bar there but at the same time I think its crazy to prevent the under 21 group from attending.

I also know people who go to get away from their significant others and have the what happens in vegas stays in vegas experience and a $20-$50 "badge" that lets their spouse come and play with them at night might be a harder sell to let them come out alone. If the significant other has interest in the con itself and learning anything by all means get a full badge and dive in and there will be at least a few talks and demonstrations that they should be able to enjoy.

[big chopper]

Re: Defcon 17 suggestions

It isn't DEFCON's responsibility to entertain the non-hacker significant others of attendees.
They're in Vegas. They'll find something to do.
--bc,

[Dallas]

Re: Defcon 17 suggestions

Have to agree. Come to the con, pay for the con. Less than 200 is a steal anyway just for the badge.

It isn't DEFCON's responsibility to entertain the non-hacker significant others of attendees.
They're in Vegas. They'll find something to do.
--bc,

[Deviant Ollam]

Re: Defcon 17 suggestions

It isn't DEFCON's responsibility to entertain the non-hacker significant others of attendees.

Have to agree. Come to the con, pay for the con. Less than 200 is a steal anyway just for the badge.

i've gotta say, this is sort of where my head is in the whole matter. every time someone proposes "girlfriend con" or "sig-o con" or some such, i worry that it will turn into some sort of adult version of the DEFCON Babysitting Service that was shot down in another thread.

i don't want to sound overly-harsh... and perhaps that's not the best choice of words above. still, the theme remains (at least in my mind) that there are two types of significant others who make appearances in vegas currently...

1. the ones who want to be exposed to the scene and can either dive right in or just accompany their guy or gal who is already established at DEFCON

2. the ones who would get fussy or bored over being in town just for DEFCON and choose to seek out alternate plans at least some of the time

... and my whole thing is, why do you need a DEFCON event for either of these types of people?

i'm all for diverse events with a wide range of perspectives (including a "women in technology and hacking" talk) in order to have the maximum possible value for people who are coming to the table from Group 1 (and i think DEFCON has that, between diverse speakers and the huge range of contests and events)

i also see merit and value in threads (or even a sub-forum in the social area) dedicated to discussion of other events in town, great spa packages, ticket deals, etc. that could be of use to people who are attending DEFCON but would also like to see other parts of what Vegas has to offer if they're not 100% in the hacking scene. such a forum is also a great place for folks to meet and perhaps plan events together, pre-con.

however, a dedicated section of DEFCON just for people who are looking to do non-DEFCON things strikes me as having the potential to attract a third group of attendees...

3. people who think hacking is lame or childish or otherwise weird and are only in town because they are neurotic and in a relationship so precarious that they can't stand to be away from their significant other for three to five days.

... no outright disrespect intended there, but come on... if your wife or girlfriend or fella or whomever isn't going to attend any of the talks or events and is maybe just going to come for the parties they can either handle things totally on their own during the day or, wonder of wonders, they can let you have this independent part of your own life and you can show them the photos and tell stories when you're back home.

i'm pretty big into spending time with the ones that you love, but i also know i'd go out of my mind without at least some time apart from the women in my life. it gives you perspective and balance and the ability to behave in ways that might make a sig-o roll his or her eyes, and that's totally healthy, at least for a weekend.

on another note, however...

i could support some system whereby people without DEFCON badges can attend after-hours events if they are accompanied by attendees. while some may think this clashes with my above comments, i would agree that if you choose to have someone in town with you who isn't attending DEFCON it would be nice to at least get to socialize with them in the evening hours.

[DJ Jackalope]

Re: Defcon 17 suggestions

OK:
I like Signcarver's idea on a cheap badge you can get that would get you into DC after like...8pm or something.

Dallas: I didn't mean to go all sexist on the "women and hackers and tech" talk idea to be all girls... but much as I HATE sounding sexist, soooo many chicas are not comfortable with learning new things with a even one guy in the room. Absolutely funny since this is what the thread pretty much boils down to.

it gives you perspective and balance and the ability to behave in ways that might make a sig-o roll his or her eyes, and that's totally healthy, at least for a weekend.

Deviant: You apparently have no idea what it would take for you to do something that would make me roll my eyes at you. Keep trying.

Big Chopper: Thank you, yes.

B/W Balls: Ha. I'm beginning to think it might be safer to just plain skip my set at defcon and see whoever is after me with the amount of things that go on exactly when I am playing. "I just got here, I missed the announcement!" =)

[LosT]

Re: Defcon 17 suggestions

Response to some of the points made earlier:

* The number of IRONS in the HHV were limited to those I brought and those that others brought. For the record two of my expensive irons were stolen.

* The tips were fine enough pitch for the pins on the USB connectors if you know how to solder them. That was the point of the HHV to teach this.

* SMT parts aren't that bad to solder with proper techniques.

* I have talked with Russ, and it appears as though we will have a much larger space for the HHV next year, due to the success of it this year.

* Those that feel n00bish about hacking the badges should attend Joe's presentation each year. The intent of the badge is to be easy for n00bs to learn on.

LosT

[Hurricane]

Re: Defcon 17 suggestions

I think a "guest" badge could work...for a price of course.

And for the record, I did not pitch a DEFCON babysitting service idea, I was looking for other parents that were interested in splitting the cost of a local bonded service for the week. Others read more into the idea than was actually there (A junior hacker village, etc.) I just know what sitters cost these days and would like to split costs with anyone else who had their kids there, too....and possibly do some family-friendly (non-con) activities during the evening hours. But I am well aware that this is inappropriate conversation for this board and will keep it to private conversation.

Just for kicks, I will ask this....what would you all consider an appropriate age for a kid to attend? I am looking forward to the day we get to take our junior hacker along with us and show him that being a geek is really cool, no matter what the kids at school say.

Deviant, I hope to attend the Shoot next year...I just hope my husband doesn't get shot again. :P